Conditioning a dog UP TO WEIGHT??

[FrostyPaws]

Factoring in the ability to breathe is a dog by dog basis. There are dogs that are nutters before anything happens. Geeked up is a good word for it as that's exactly what they are. They want to put you away quick as was mentioned. The downside to those dogs is that a lot of them put themselves in a position to quit due to expending so much energy early on. You have some dogs with certain styles that lends to the belief they have a great ability to breathe. That may be true, but you will find out if the animal ever has to adapt to a different style due to their opponent. And considering that could never happen, you would never actually know for certain if that was the case or not.

If a person is serious about competition, the ability for the dog to breathe is greater than any amount of mouth or ability. Without O2 your dog is through.

[Officially Retired]

Factoring in the ability to breathe is a dog by dog basis.

True.

There are dogs that are nutters before anything happens. Geeked up is a good word for it as that's exactly what they are. They want to put you away quick as was mentioned. The downside to those dogs is that a lot of them put themselves in a position to quit due to expending so much energy early on.

This is true, which is why I have generally never liked short-winded dogs, and have generally always bred away from that trait. It is an absolute fact that most dogs will quit when they run hot.

However, I have seen some short-winded dogs that remained game to the core, even when so tired they got heat prostration.

You have some dogs with certain styles that lends to the belief they have a great ability to breathe. That may be true, but you will find out if the animal ever has to adapt to a different style due to their opponent. And considering that could never happen, you would never actually know for certain if that was the case or not.

Well, as long as they get the job done, and don't run hot, no matter how long it goes, then they have the required air to do the job.

If a person is serious about competition, the ability for the dog to breathe is greater than any amount of mouth or ability. Without O2 your dog is through.

That is generally true, and my dogs have built a monumental record outlasting the competition by having World Class Staying Power.

However, in some cases, a particular dog's extreme speed, strength, and ability to kill and finish will be the deciding factor in a fight ... and he will overpower and kill a longer-winded dog before "air" has anything to do with the outcome.

Jack

[No Quarter Kennel]

So back to the original question. Since we all agree that AIR is a top, if not THE TOP PRIORITY, then it makes most sense to condition a dog DOWN to his best weight.

[Officially Retired]

So back to the original question. Since we all agree that AIR is a top, if not THE TOP PRIORITY, then it makes most sense to condition a dog DOWN to his best weight.

I agree. A certain healthy degree of muscle mass, and even certain (minimal) amounts of fat, are necessary for optimal health, let alone optimal performance.

So to force a dog to go through the rigors of a hard keep as a "wet noodle," with an insufficient amount of muscle and trace fat ... all so that he can be brought "up" to a peak weight (which itself is too low for a dog to stay at normally) ... simply cannot be "best practice" for the dog.

[No Quarter Kennel]

I agree 100%. Scientifically speaking, it makes no sense. To actually increase the body mass, in any form, while trying to increase aerobic capabilities would call for extreme athlete - coach combination. I would venture to say few, if any, could pull this off effective enough to consistently "out-condition" the opposition.

[FrostyPaws]

Conditioning a dog DOWN to his CORRECT weight opens up an entirely different can of worms also. I've seen a lot of dogs through the years, and most of them aren't at their correct weight. I would say that was the hardest thing for me to learn how to do correctly, and it took a lot of years to get to the point where I understand it all as I should.

It makes it hard for me to understand how people simply don't have the dog's best interest in heart when it comes to that. Whatever weight the person is comfortable making is the one they usually choose, and most of the time, that's not in the best interest of the dog. I remember seeing one animal win at 47 and win convincingly, and yet, the owner still insists the dog is a 48lb dog. The reality of it is the dog isn't even a correct 47, but at 47 he's closer to his weight than he is at 48.

I guess I'm just not designed to understand the fallacy of calling an incorrect weight when proof otherwise has been proven to you, as the owner.

[OGDOGG]

Every one made good points as to how one should condition their dogs. The most logic way to bring in a dog is working them down to pit weight. But like I stated before I've done it a few times bringing them up to weight and it worked perfectly for me. Matter of fact when PonchoBack was going for his first and Ch Buddy for his second, both dogs were on a 8 week keep, and out of those 8 weeks 2 weeks they were 1-2 pounds under and 6 weeks they were on weight or half a pound over. At the show every one there told me how good they looked and when they performed, they basically went in there and did their thing. They were strong, didn't lose mouth, didn't run hot and most importantly barely got touched. Buddy going 40 minutes and destroyed his opponent(picked up) and PonchoBack going over the hour mark. He also destroyed his opponent(picked up). They were clearly the 2 best in show that day and also the best in conditioning. The only reason they weren't picked to be BIS was because we left ASAP.
I believe there is no wrong way to bring in a dog to perform at its peak. The problem is if you don't know what you're doing and dont have a good eye, it doesn't matter how you do it, you're gonna mess it up.

[TopShelfKennels]

Im actually in the process of conditioning up to weight right now, it's a pain in the ass honestly. I still think we are gonna pull out the W, but I do prefer working down to weight over up in weight.

[Officially Retired]

Every one made good points as to how one should condition their dogs. The most logic way to bring in a dog is working them down to pit weight. But like I stated before I've done it a few times bringing them up to weight and it worked perfectly for me. Matter of fact when PonchoBack was going for his first and Ch Buddy for his second, both dogs were on a 8 week keep, and out of those 8 weeks 2 weeks they were 1-2 pounds under and 6 weeks they were on weight or half a pound over. At the show every one there told me how good they looked and when they performed, they basically went in there and did their thing. They were strong, didn't lose mouth, didn't run hot and most importantly barely got touched. Buddy going 40 minutes and destroyed his opponent(picked up) and PonchoBack going over the hour mark. He also destroyed his opponent(picked up). They were clearly the 2 best in show that day and also the best in conditioning. The only reason they weren't picked to be BIS was because we left ASAP.

It sounds like they came in great, but this does not necessarily mean that they couldn't have been better (with the same work, same diet, and against the same dogs) being brought down to weight instead of up. In other words, good dogs worked hard, fed a good diet, and brought in on weight are going to be GOOD, regardless.

I just think it takes more out of a dog NOT to have sufficient muscle/fat while being worked hard. I think it harms them internally in ways that are not readily apparent.

I believe there is no wrong way to bring in a dog to perform at its peak. The problem is if you don't know what you're doing and dont have a good eye, it doesn't matter how you do it, you're gonna mess it up.

I think there are a thousand wrong ways to bring a dog in. I know, I did a lot of them when I was green

I believe there are also a thousand ways to bring a dog in "pretty good" shape, good enough to win (especially if the dog is real good).

However, IMO there are much fewer ways to bring a dog in optimal shape ...

Jack

[OGDOGG]

Im actually in the process of conditioning up to weight right now, it's a pain in the ass honestly. I still think we are gonna pull out the W, but I do prefer working down to weight over up in weight.

I guess we are in the same boat 100%. I am also doing the same thing right now.