Its starting to look like some kibble vs raw war. I think feed is very important but right now its being made more important then it is.
Tell me in how many occasions would an average kibble fed dog win over a good raw fed dog?
About the dog on the picture Limey posted, no the owner did not feed raw correctly. Do you even know what he fed?
He looks great now, obviously there are good ways of feeding kibble too. To each his own.
Faster digested food does not equal better. Except from specific needs, like pre and post workout feeds, slow digestion is better. Unless someone wishes protein to be converted into glycogens to serve energy purposes, which will also raise insulin etc etc. If the case of faster absorbed foods had real advantage over conventional, then every multimillion paid athlete would live on predigested supplements, and there are plenty of every kind, aminos for protein, glucose for carbs and mct's for fats, to name a few.
There is no kibble raw diet war unless somebody is creating one!. and one responds to it.. If im making it more importend then it realy iz, why do we see the mythologicel proportions of raw feeders do it 10 fold!!.. truth is a bitch when you take away all the bad claims about dry food/ kibble.and show its the other way around consirning bio ibdustrie crap in these same diets used bij the nee sayers ... when diniel sets in imidiatly..when confronted with the crap they feed themselfs..
and yes i know what the man fed to his dog. and yes he tried DIFEREND ways of raw diets.
about 20 years ago a man who owned a dogfood/ sups/ company called Highlex international from the UK, was the VERY FIRST one in europe who came out with the compleat Barf diet sausage. WE where the first ones to get it and the resipies to create raw diets. and tested it for that company. the man claimed at the time this wil be the future in making money in feeding dogs. we knew the compleat set up and toughts behind it.
afther testing these products we disided NOT to go for it. a BIG mistake ""finansial wize"" as we could have made wel millions. as we never belived it would pick up in our scene but in the pet world scene.wich was not our thing.......
as our scene was to high end and profesional involved to get and see the benifit of working a dog profesional on these diets. as we alredy walkt away from raw feeding.. This happend long befor you knew what a pit dog was my frind.... where there were more then 45 kennels in a country that only took 3 1-2 hours to drive tru with sons and bitches direckly of off Bolio ,Rufus, jeep, grand sons of nigger you name it there where only a drive away... surounded bij another 5 countrys and a ez flight to the usa..
where dogs off of JD Elliot where considerd as the best Eli dogs in the world and got spankt and where Bobby Bulshit hall got spankt as wel. a scene where todays dogman can only dream about..
The only raw meat that was given with the kibble in those days bij those who stil belived in it, was a combination of 100 grams of 40% beef/30% deer/30% goat being minst together. lightly kookt vegies like spinage was added as wel to top it of with 1/4 cup of brown riced. the kibble used was 75% of those diets., at that time Eucanuba and Purina was still king together with the Higlex greyhound foods wich we alredy used and sold back then.. People ASUME that we never fed raw diets. WE DID....... I am from the generation who was raised feeding raw to the dogs. being grown up with my father importing and breeding ecsotic animals ranging from tigers to gevet cats. and who slaughter there own animals to feed these animals..
there was absolutly no benifit but more time consuming efford and it was nearly imposible to get it right when working a dog for the ``fast`` lane. as there was to mutch inconsistentie in the products used and the bulk dogs needed to consume in the high end of its keep was to mutch of a strain on the diguesting system. find the south african pitbull forum and look for a intervieuw with Indian Sunny where feeding is discussed as wel between raw and kibble..80% of the claims here are made 1 bij guys who where never realy suscsesfull in the fast lane of the game ,but had more sucses as breeders. where dogs on the chain ore kenneld up look great... 2 by guys who are involved a couple of years and have a nice time looking at a couple of dogs and showing one ,ones in a while.. Claims can only be made if the testing of a RACING PRODUCT IS DONE IN THE VERY TOP LEVEL OF COMPETITION FOR DECADES!!!!!!!.. One bird in the sky thussend make a flock....And i think you know what im on about.... lat but not least I have NO problem with people feeding raw and there claim to sucses. i salut them..... I DO have a problem when wrong statemends are being made consirning kibble being bad for the dogs. wich are all wiped of the table bij just SOAKING good quality kibble in water.... IT IS that simple...........
It is always beter. .Originally Posted by tasoschatz
the faster food have been diguested the more time a body has to ``recuver`` to be redy for the necst day. Another rezen why high bulk feeding)raw' works against that . and bij the way why do you think athletes dont eat raw meat ore a raw dough diets!!.. Eczackly because everyting we alredy eat in our dayly lives has in one way ore the other way being prepeard as pre diguested food ranging from bread to meat, kookt pasta,s you name it... kooking ``pre diguested``' food was a quantum leap forward when man discuverd how to make Fire......It took the strain of off our diguesting system making us able to became dominand in the animal kingdom.. where we used lesser calories and energy to diguest raw feeding..
Limey was the dog on the video fed ones or twice on that day?
Wow, tried soaking today.
40 minutes of crying/barking and me shouting to the dogs to keep quiet.
no matter they are in or outside, they all hear me preparing the feed.
Once a day
http://m1301.photobucket.com/albumvi...f.jpg.html?o=0
Norman's Bear 1xW
I guess our background and understanding of certain data is diametricaly oposite.
The faster a nutrient is absorbed in an environment of regular feeding and by a healthy subject, the highest the posibility for it to be used for the wrong reasons. Protein will turn into glucose instead of replenishing glycogen levels, carbs will create a high insulin spike and then a sudden drop, fats will go straight into deposit. Pre and post workout meals exempted. Nutrient absorption starts in the mouth, continious in the stomach and then in the intestine. Different nutrients at different stages, even the same macronutrient groups contain subgroups of different quality nutrients that each is absorbed from a different body part. Obviously they offer different results. Three aminos digested individually offer different actions than a group / chain of these three for eg.
Athletes do like continuous supply of nutrients, not fast absorption, again pre and post workout meals exempted, with your proposal they should consume tiny amounts of food every ten minutes or so. They do not eat raw because our body can not deal anymore with digesting it and certain allergies and other microorganisms that can harm us. This is an evolution step that hapenned during thousands of years in what is today the modern human, it started from neanderdal humanoid. Yes, cooking their meat enabled them to digest it faster and easier and help their brain to grow and everything, during hard times with plenty of starvation. Milk digestion from human adults took 10.000 years to happen and it is considered a revolutionary step in terms of time for the evolution science, by the way we are the only adult mammal that can digest milk from other mammals. But the above are evolution process, it has nothing to do with what we talk about here, unless someone is convinced that evolution in canines happens much faster etc and wants to do it. Also, when the man discovered how to cook pasta, also discovered diabetis.
I know your views on feeding from the g-d forum and I do not expect you to change, my way is to try to see if I can find some justification on these views, which is why I ask and post. Until now I stay on my original ideas, my background is such that looks for data and proof given at certain ways not met here. Obviously I will continue reading your posts since I could always learn something to my benefit.
I make your right about your background and understanding of certain data is diametricaly differnd then mine.. atleaths DO eat as LIGHT as posible, and as mutch pre diguested prepeard food as posible.
Because they do, it thussend meen that ALL the nutritiend included diguest at the same speed!!!. Just QUIKER as they normaly do.. h
Having been a body builder myself and a boxing trainer for my 3 sons (one made state ch) including an conditioner for 30 years i know al to wel, how the cooky crumbles.
atleats like boxers body builders do eat diferend meals yes at diferend times a day.
BUT al of them are very light and most are pre diguested meals. and taken to keep the tank of energy full!!.
Al there food is is light and prepeard to digues fast being it pre ore afther workout meals!..
This is also the rezen why atleaths and dogs conditioners are useing steroids!. Not just to become stronger and being able to ubsorb more nutritiens /food But and here it comes ""to recuver quiker"" and HOLD ON to energy... Due to the combination of steroids and low bulk fast diguested food.
The body uses way LESS energy to digest food and is able to have a BETER FASTER recuvery time. saving up energy that normaly is lost diguesting it big bulk meals.
We ALL know what happens when we eat a big meal with lots of everyting. We get TIRED and go sleep it of on the coutch as the body is working its ASS of to diguest the meal!!!!!! in such as high pace that your face wil GLOW!!. and you get actualy FISICAL TIRED and fal asleep.. wich on itself costs loads of energy as it is ENERGY LOSS and your tired during that prosses........
The point you make about mankind not being able to digest raw meat anymore , and be able to digest milk ecetera. is not holding ground eather as that my frind is only geograficly detirmend.
People from the far east specificly the japanese can NOT stand MILK.'
while on the other side of the world in some parts of europe they dont have that problem . Same where the japanese and escimos eat LOTS of raw meats and fish.
And in africa they eat dirty half rotten meat that make us lose our lives due to massif food posion and bacterial infections.. hensh the advice when you travel to ecsotic countries to get your shots against deseases and drink from water bottles only and to eat wel prepeard wel kookt food!!.....
And yes evolution in man bred made canines is 10 fold faster then mankind. For the record the wolf and wild dogs from african are WILD!!.
Our breed is NOT and is a creation of man kind bred for a sirtin peurpose .
In sutch a way that it has become a sub spiecies.
Our dogs look like dogs eat like dogs shit like dogs and pissis like dogs they iven bark like dogs .
But thats as far as it gose. As our dogs have NOTHING more to do with what the world considers a dog and defenatly not iven remote close to a wild dog..
Its bred AGAINST the rules and laws of nature and mutated in a animal that could and would not ever been a product of nature. It has the abilety to take more use and abuse and recuvers from trauma more so then any animal alive today.
It has been culled and selected for a perpose in such a way , that it has sirpased al defenition of being a wild animal. and could NOT sirvive as a wild animal..
This breed my frinds is feurther away from the wild dogs of nature then any other dog breed known to man.
And therfor could not and should not be compeard with the wild dogs of nature>> where animals like the wolf can diguest up to 30 lbs of meat and bones and can go with out food for 2 to 3 weeks without loosing energy inbetween meals because like wild cats afther a meal they do F..kall in between but spend as little enery as posible<<<...
compleatly diferend animals then ours..
who have sevear condition programs where they have a increase workload for weeks and weeks at the time. sometimes up to 5/5 hours work a day.
minimize recuvery time and maximize recuvery is KEY with the INCREASE of work .
Which makes recuvery take longer. so it is very importend for pre diguested ore low bulk food
Our breed is so advandst that they are able to compensate for some time while being over workt ore being sick.
Meaning that when they havend fully recuverd from the workouts. they still go out give the performance that is askt from them and be able to hold on to that for some time.
By the time they do show it its to late...
From my own ecsperienses i used to work the dogs at the same time every day. and i checkt the time they came out of there doghouses and strechst out and took a piss and a shit. I wachst to see how long BEFORE they came out to show they where reddy to go for another days work. The quiker and sooner they are reddy, the more energy was in them and the more you could push them IF nesersary.
Pushing the recuvery envelop time needed bij feeding them high bulk raw food japordis the recuvery time.. Ofcours this all depends and varius with geografic suroundings as wel like temperature/ dry ore moister air/ sea level ore in the mountains and the work scedule that dogs get. same thuse aplies for humans. and diet needs to be adjusted for diferend locations ecetera. therfor nothing in written in stone.
what is written in stone is that a body needs to recuver as quick as posible with as less efford posible to put as less strain on the SYSTEM to uphold and hold on to as mutch energy posible.... Hensh lots and lots of pre diguested suplemends and vitamins and minerals and protiens blood buildetrs luquit Amino acids ecetera are a MUST for all the sporting mamals being it Man horse dogs to be able to compeat in the fast lane.
As reaching that goal with raw/ fresh food ore vegies without ading these pre diguested suplemend and without taking away the BULK needed wil NOT make you able to compeat against the rest of the world. unless you have a good given/ bred talend to do so...
Aczample do you know ore realize how many frutes and veggies you need to eat in BULK to get the same vitamins and minerals inside of you compeard to a simpel multi vita/ mineral pill!!! . and wich one is ubsorbt and diguested quiker to give a faster resuld in recuvery. how long will a atleath need to recuver eating fresh food drinking water being in the heat loosing lots of minerals and body fluids, compeard to drink a simple GATOR AID where minerals are ubsurbt and added in the sytem within MIN, Yes thats pre diguested food for the body and mind also..... Do you belive a todays atleath who ONLY eats fresh food high bulk diet is able to get all the nutritiense out of there diets NEEDED to compeat!!.. I dont think so.. we onlt have to look at our resend history where there was no pre diguested food and suplemends availeble to see what a quantem leap forward man and animal has gained in sports times and records due to that in combination with the training technics that fit these diets.................
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote