Redboy / jocko has made more dead game dogs !

[waccamaw]

I am not saying Poncho was one of the baddest dogs ever. But the dog he lost to was another Eli/Carver dog

Oh, and Poncho outproduced every dog you have

The dog David TRADED back to me, to get that son of Bud, was Sassy. And I was very glad to get her back.

If you want to try to make this personal, I can go over a complete history of how my crosses with your stuff did ... and how other crosses and my pure stuff did by comparison.

Jack

You comparison is no good you are clearly kennel blind,and I seriously doubt yours and very few others have out produced ours ,and magazines don't mean anything .cover dogs don't mean anything .real production is what means something.it is like this you got let's say 5000 pups out and 1000 make ch the other man 100pups out there and 50 make ch so who is the better producer ,Ray Charles said he could see.
Jack I don't want you to think I am coming at you cause I am not ,sometimes you take things personel.

[waccamaw]

You seen one of the better ones ... Little Jack 2xW

I seen a few females as well think they might have been off our yellow John. Or bud they ended up in nc.a lot to do with a pup turning into a good hunter is a good owner.

[Wsk]

The Top Producers of the Top Bloodlines
Reprinted by E.L. Mullins with permission from Carl Mims & Jack Kelly from the Origional Sporting Dog Journal November-December 1986 Slight editing & Photographs included by E.L. Mullins

I keep records of the top match dogs of today. I can tell you what lines are winning the most and which dogs are winning and producing the best dogs of that bloodline. My life is raising these dogs and trying to get the best yard in the world. Every time I get the Journal, I would get out my two big boxes of pedigrees and get to work. I go through the Show News and if they have the breeding of the dogs matched, I make a pedigree on that dog and put the account of the match on the back of the pedigree and put it in the file of his owner. Then I go to his Sires' pedigree and put the account of the match on the back of his pedigree and I do the same on the back of his Dams' pedigree. This way I know how many winners this dog has produced and how many loses. It really would help me when you all send in your matches that you tell their breeding. I have been doing this since 1977. When I see other dogmen, I ask them what Stud Dog would they breed to, if they could, and you won't believe the dogs they choose - great match dogs, but sorry producers, according to their records in the Journal. One man told me about a dog that has been advertised in every Journal and other magazines, for the last few years, and I ask him WHY? He said he was a great and very famous Stud Dog, according to what has been put in the ads in the magazines and what people have wrote about him. I said, "But, what has he produced?" According to the Journal, this dog that everyone says is such a great Stud Dog, has produced one (1) dog that won in 5 hours and 33 minutes and a dog that won one and quit his second time out in 40 minutes. These are the only ones that have been put in the Journal, unless I have overlooked some. If people are claiming that he is such a great producer, why don't they send in his matches? I know he is game and I like his bloodline, but I wouldn't spend my money to breed to him. You want a dog who has already produced a good percentage of match material, so when you decide to send a gyp to breed, to get the best of a certain bloodline, pick the top producer of that bloodline - It's your money and your time and work at stake. If you are going for the "Tater" - "Faith" line, which this dog is from, I would go for Patrick's "Bull Boy Bob". He will be 10 years old in December. He has sired 7 dogs that have been matched, in the Journal, and only one of them lost, picked up in 54 minutes. I know he has sired many more winners, they just haven't been reported. He has produced two Champions and two 2x winners. His dam,, "Tuffy", was directly off of "Tater" and "Faith". The top four winning lines today are based mainly on these great dogs: Wood's "Snooty" (ROM), Patrick's "Tombstone" (ROM),* "Indian Bolio" (ROM), Crenshaw's (Irish Jerry's) Champion "Honeybunch" (ROM), and Bass' "Tramp Red Boy", who could and should have been on the list of Register of Merit, but isn't A lot of the Stud Dogs or females are usually dead or not getting pups any more by the time their offspring start really winning. Here is a small list, I made up, of the top dogs from certain lines and the top producers from that line. Some of the dogs I suggest to breed to are ones from a line of winning dogs, but he or she hasn't been bred much, so couldn't have a list of winning offspring.

1.) "Tombstone" (ROM)/* "Indian Bolio" (ROM).(Sired 2 Champions), Patrick's "Boni Maroni", Patrick's "Blitz" (produced 2 Champions), Patrick's "Red Lady" (produced 2 Champions), Boyles' "Dirty Mary" (produced 9 dogs matched and in the Journal - 11 wins--3 loses & 1 draw), Ch. "Bobby Jr."(produced 7 dogs matched and in the Journal - 7 wins --4 loses & 1 draw. Two of these dogs that lost won Gamest in Show trophies.) Ch. "Tonka" (produced 5 Champions, only one in the Journal and many winners.) A good stud prospect is S.T.P.'s Grand Champion "Buck", a 6x winner, from a line of game dogs and dogs that have produced a lot of winners.

2.) Bass' "Red Boy" / Ch. "Yellow John" (ROM) * like: Ch. "Toro" (won 4 lost 1), S.T.P.'s GrCh. "John Boy" (won 5), Super Gnat's "Boots" (won over a Champion in 4 hours and 52 minutes.), Melvin G.'s "J.R." (won 5), S.T.P.'s "Sassy" (won 2), and GrCh. "Yellow John" (won 6). If everyone's matches were reported, Ch. "Yellow John" would be the top R.O.M. sire. "Yellow John" was sired by "Red Boy" bred back to his daughter, twice. GrCh. "Yellow" is the sire of S.T.P.'s Ch. "Rodney". If you could breed to "Yellow", he'd be a good prospect. If you can breed to a good, direct son of "Red Boy", do so.

3.) bred a lot, so there are a lot of Champions and winners. Some of the greats by her are: Ch. "Jeep" (ROM), GrCh. "Snake", Ch. "Holly", GrCh."Weehut" and Ch. "Charlie". "Jeep" has been bred a lot and has sired 5 Champions. Dog off of "Jeep" has this recorded in the Journal. 33 wins, 12 loses -- 7 quit and 1 draw. If anyone plans to get something directly off "Jeep", better hurry up, he's not getting any younger. Rebel Kennels' Ch. "Rebel" has produced pretty good, 11 wins and 2 loses. After "Jeep" is gone, "Turtle" would be the best prospect for a sire. GrCh. "Snake" has sired only one 4x winner and 2 dogs that quit. He has produced poorly.

4.) "Snooty" (ROM) *"Snooty"s record had been reported, in the Journal, he would have 8 R.O. M. points, tied with "Yellow John", if all his were reported. "Snooty" a 2x winner sired: Ch. "Thor" (won 4 lost 1), Ch. "Sugar" (won 4 - now in Holland), Ch. "Red Lady" (won 3, lost one-quit), "Spike" (won 5), "Red Danger" (won 4 lost 1), Ch. "Napoleon" (won 3), and "Snooty Son" (won 3 or 4, none of his were reported). There aren’t many direct sons or daughters off "Snooty" left to breed to. The dog registered as Hargrove's"Spanky" (ROM) produced 3 Champions, but he is now deceased. Some good prospects would be "Snooty Son" - owned by Mark Bristol. His dam is 1/2 Tudor. Mims' "Mose"- game tested, bred back to his daughter"Moxie" a 2x winner, dead game. "Mose" is the last of his litter and is now in California.* His brother sired 2 Champions before his death."Spike", a 5 time winner has only produced two 1x winners, in the These are the top producing lines of today. It's your choice. Most of the top sires are gone before you can see who are the top producers. You just have to bred to one who has a good percentage of game littermates and is a good one himself. Breed to a line with a good percentage of wins.

TIP!! GrCh. "Lucky Strike". This line use to be one of the tops years ago, but has gone down in their percentage of wins since the great breeder Bob Hemphill died.* GrCh. "Lucky Strike" is a great dog, but I know the win - loss record on his line today and they hardly ever win, in the Journal. You'll take a chance of getting any match material if you breed to him. If you have a good line of stock, but need an outcross, study the record of that dog you want to breed to, before you do it. Don't breed to him just because he's the greatest match dog in the country, but because he comes from a line of a good percentage of great dogs.

Here's an old article that in a way is fitting for this interesting thread.

[Officially Retired]

You comparison is no good you are clearly kennel blind,and I seriously doubt yours and very few others have out produced ours ,and magazines don't mean anything . real production is what means something.

I am not kennel blind.

I am not the one who said my general bloodline produces the baddest dogs, or kills the most dogs, that was you

Poncho produced 59 wins, 11 losses. That has nothing to do with magazines; many of them were just wins/losses out of 1 stud dog who was bred 15x.
That is real production

Very few dogs can match that as a producer, including 99% of my own.

Regarding the subject of "baddest dogs," I think Eli dogs (and Eli crosses) kill the most, quite frankly. And I don't particularly like them
The reason I don't like them is I don't think they have high % of gameness, but I do respect their accomplishments and give them the credit they deserve.

Quite frankly, I like RBJ dogs better, as a whole, because I think they're more dependable % wise ...

it is like this you got let's say 5000 pups out and 1000 make ch the other man 100pups out there and 50 make ch so who is the better producer ,Ray Charles said he could see.

I agree with you.

Jack I don't want you to think I am coming at you cause I am not ,sometimes you take things personel.

Okay, maybe I was.

But I have never said my dogs "kill the most" ... or produce "the baddest" dogs ... or that "all the good dogs" have my blood in it.

I just say my dogs win in as high (or higher) % as anything out there because, WHEN SHOWN, they win 8.7x out of 10 (87%), and they do. Don't think any other line can pass that.
Now, the wins may not be impressive ... my dogs may have to come off the bottom and out-scratch ... or maybe they're in control the whole time ... whatever they have to do ... they win more a lot than they lose.
But I certainly don't think they're "the baddest," "the winningest," or that I have a lock on winning.

But (as you mentioned above) I will compare MY PERCENTAGES with anyone who has ever bred dogs at any time.

Jack

[Officially Retired]

I seen a few females as well think they might have been off our yellow John. Or bud they ended up in nc.a lot to do with a pup turning into a good hunter is a good owner.

I forgot about that breeding!

I remember one in particular would have been a Champion, but for a freak accident when he broke his jaw in the first :10.

Also wish we would have got pups out of Hitler and Missy. If I remember right, Hitler was DG.

Jack

[Officially Retired]

Jasper was his name

[waccamaw]

Jasper was his name

There was another that would take out the hogs eyes .

[waccamaw]

For the record we only breed for hog hunting ,just in case anybody gets the wrong idea

[Black Hand]

Most of the redboy n rbj dogs I've had and seen just weren't very smart. That's my only knock on them though. Although there was a son of southern kennels bambam that had it all. But I believe there was some heavy bolio on the bottom side.

[waccamaw]

Most of the redboy n rbj dogs I've had and seen just weren't very smart. That's my only knock on them though. Although there was a son of southern kennels bambam that had it all. But I believe there was some heavy bolio on the bottom side.

That is the difference in the real old school red boy / jocko (waccamaw dogs)! And the watered down version. Others try to push .