Balkan Rules vs Cajun Rules

[CYJ]

Ditto Jack, I wanted a Ten second scratch and a 10 second out of holds count. Whether losing or winning it should be the best dog to win. I never cared for those dragged out affairs. Sometimes it was because some one bet more money than they could afford to lose. Loved the money more than the dog or their pride got in the way.

Ozzie Steven's story on Homer is a good example of not loaning out a very good dog to some one else. When you are a good conditioner yourself and the stakes were set to high. Ozzie told Sonny, Matt, and self one night in a motel room all about it. You could hear the hurt in his voice from losing Homer. To make matters even worse not many days after that conversation Ozzie's wife died. Two hard blows to a very good dog man.

[gotap_d]

I think there are three aspects where you can win or lose a dog show and those are imo conditioning(schooling, upbringing and actual keep) handling, and the dog. What the balkin rules do is remove one of those aspects. One guy who agreed with those rules said it eliminates mishandles. Why eliminate mishandles? If someone keeps mishandling the ref needs to foul his ass out. If you know how to make good handles you will always favor cajun rules. If i have a dog of less caliber than yours and i also have a keep that isnt as good as yours but you have a rookie in the box handling and he cant get the scratch off of him while his dog is doing good and my hounds slowly comes to the top by the time he finally does get a handle his dog may not want to come anymore.

[R2L]

Jack you nailed it.

Gotap, you are right. That was one of their reasons. More and more i get the feeling their rules was changed because there was to many dirty games being played and no good referee to give a foul. On the other hand, their referee now has to count till 3. U can count to 3 in 2 seconds or 5 seconds......
I heard some other reasons like " handling gives to much rest for the dog". And one guy said "under cajun rules the better handler can win and not the better dog, under balkan rules the best dog always wins"

These reasons are coming from professional dogman. Do i even need to comment them?

[dpitbull]

Cajun rules. I think every dog has the right to quit and should be given the opportunity to do so. The Cajun rules and the times involved make scratching paramount. I have seen it both ways as well CYJ, I have had the fight crazy freak in the corner who I felt like was burning up all he had while facing the corner trying to get back over there. It is a double standard, LOL, I want you to face the corner but I want to face across for less energy being burned. We can't have it all. EWO

Great post

[CrazyRed]

Have a question about this because me a buddy and ol timer have been arguing over this for years now, but to my understand when I read the rules in reference to the 10 seconds to scratch, the dog has 10 seconds to get over there, if he is standing still not trying the referee should declare that dog the loser. They are to begin scratching on the release and have 10 to get over. If they stand their thinking for the first 5 seconds or so they should be declared the loser. Did anybody else read and believe that way to be true?

[gotap_d]

I have never heard of any such rule that a dog has to begin his scratch immediately or within the first 5 seconds. Neither do i agree with that if it is an actual rule. As long as they beat the count(whatever it may be) they cant be declared the loser. Some may have their vision blurred if it takes a few seconds to make a move so be it. Jmo.

[Officially Retired]

Have a question about this because me a buddy and ol timer have been arguing over this for years now, but to my understand when I read the rules in reference to the 10 seconds to scratch, the dog has 10 seconds to get over there, if he is standing still not trying the referee should declare that dog the loser. They are to begin scratching on the release and have 10 to get over. If they stand their thinking for the first 5 seconds or so they should be declared the loser. Did anybody else read and believe that way to be true?

Great point!

I was going to mention this as well, but never got around to it. Pinky & The Brain had a great article on this (can't find a copy), where almost the entire bulldog community has it wrong as to how they apply the 10-count on scratching.

As you said, a dog doesn't have 10 seconds to stand there, suckin air, only to decide at "7" he's going to go. That is NOT what is meant by 10 seconds! The dog must BEGIN AT ONCE to go over there ... and he has 10 seconds to crawl, flop, roll, or do whatever he can do to get there ... but IF HE STOPS (even for a second) he is automatically declared the loser. Which means any dog that takes a 1-count, at the scratchline, or even while in the process of going ... LOSES.

A dog must be continuously trying to get over there, and if for even 1 second he stands, then it's GAME OVER

The truth is, 99% of all dogmen do NOT read the Cajun Rules properly ... which means they do NOT follow the Cajun Rules correctly ...

However, for people who read the rules properly, the can see that entire point of the Cajun Rules is to get the contest over with as quickly as possible, ending things at the first hesitation or "lack of gameness" ... thereby offering the greatest chance of sparing the lives of the dogs involved

Jack

[FrostyPaws]

If you read an original copy of the Cajun Rules, Ted has it right. The dog must begin immediately. If the dog stops at any particular point in running the scratch, he loses. The original rules do not allow for the dog to stand for 5 seconds then go. It does not allow for the dog to go immediately and stop halfway for 3 seconds.

Go immediately and continue trying or lose.


Rule 11: Now when one of the dogs turns his head and shoulders away from his opponent after the fight is on it is a turn, whether they are in holds or free, and the handler must claim the turn and the referee must allow the claim if he believes it is a turn or the referee must call the first fair turn he sees whether the handler claims it or not and when the referee calls a turn he shall say, "Handle your dogs", and each handler must pick up his dog as soon as he can without breaking a hold. Handlers carry their dogs to their respective corners, immediately on picking them up, keeping the dogs face turned away from the center of the pit. 25 seconds after the dogs are carried to their corners the referee shall say, "Face your dogs". Then the handlers must show their dog's head and shoulders between their legs, facing the center of the pit. The dog that turned first must scratch first. 25 seconds after the dogs are carried to their corners. In five seconds more the referee shall say; "Let go", then the dog that made the first turn must be turned loose by his handler and this dog must go across and mouth the other dog. If, when he is turned loose, he refuses to start at once, or if he stops on the way over, or if he fails to reach his opponent, the referee must declare his opponent the winner. A handler is allowed to release his dog at anytime he sees fit after the dog whose turn it is to cross has started over. He must turn him loose when the dogs touch each other. He is not compelled to until then

[Officially Retired]

If you read an original copy of the Cajun Rules, Ted has it right. The dog must begin immediately. If the dog stops at any particular point in running the scratch, he loses. The original rules do not allow for the dog to stand for 5 seconds then go. It does not allow for the dog to go immediately and stop halfway for 3 seconds.
Go immediately and continue trying or lose.

Do you have a copy of that article?

[FrostyPaws]

I have a copy of the original rules, posted on my previous post.

Thanks for the green and underlining. I knew it was missing something when I posted it.