Mouth

[FrostyPaws]

I believe Titan ended up winning another show in close to 3 hours. Her Maggie dog, and her brother Buck, were terrible dogs. Maggie had completely incapacitated every dog she'd ever come into contact with. Funny thing is that Sarah knew shit tons more than her husband. When I was around Sarah a few times with dog dealings, it never took those dogs 30 minutes to get mad. I never did much like her husband LOL

Rip produced a lot of quality dogs for them bred to a variety of studs. I know I never believed that until I saw a few myself. Seeing is believing.

[OGDOGG]

Lol. You're right about her knowing more about dogs than her husband. One other skill they had was cropping their dogs ears. They sure got that skill down to the T. Everyone of their dogs had the exact same ear crop and they got some nice looking game dogs. I saw those pair you mentioned when they were young. Sarah told me they were badass dogs but at the time I didn't see any scars on them so I didn't think they were any good. I always wanted to hook up with her to acquire another dog but I lost contact with her.

[OGDOGG]

I have seen heavily inbred animals with very devastating mouths. Have seen dogs with great mouth getting inbred upon, and the offspring lost that mouth. I know there are lines out there that are well known for their mouth. On the other hand I have seen dogs with terrible mouths not being able to do much damage because they lack finish. Seen average mouthed dogs with great finish that were able to put one down in short order. Just breed for mouth is nothing I would do, breeding for finish is something I will do. Ofcourse the dog has to be game smart and full of air to. But finish is something I rate very high.

Why do you think inbreeding take away their mouth? What if you just keep breeding the offsprings with mouth back to each other? Maybe it's not that simple?

[skipper]

Why do you think inbreeding take away their mouth? What if you just keep breeding the offsprings with mouth back to each other? Maybe it's not that simple?

Good question. To be honest I can't answer why. I am no expert in genetics, all I know is that some dogs can handle inbreeding more than others. Know of a guy that had dogs that were known for there mouth and ability, but the more he in/line bred upon his foundation dogs the more they lost those traits. Until he did a complete outcross. That brought the traits back....Very interesting topic this. Maybe somebody that have better knowledge in genetics can answer this?

[FrostyPaws]

Mouth is a trait. That is what you have to remember first and foremost. If you want dogs that have a certain type of mouth on a regular basis, then you have to breed dogs with that type of mouth. If you're inbreeding on dogs that don't have that type of mouth, then it's not something you'll get with any consistent basis. When one dog pops out with the devastating mouth, and if that's what you're really shooting for, then you breed that dog. Whatever dogs come off him with that same or close to the same mouth, you breed those, and so forth and so on through a different breeding combination.

Eventually, if you're selecting (the major idea) the right dogs, then you'll start to cement that trait more and more.

[FrostyPaws]

Lol. You're right about her knowing more about dogs than her husband. One other skill they had was cropping their dogs ears. They sure got that skill down to the T. Everyone of their dogs had the exact same ear crop and they got some nice looking game dogs. I saw those pair you mentioned when they were young. Sarah told me they were badass dogs but at the time I didn't see any scars on them so I didn't think they were any good. I always wanted to hook up with her to acquire another dog but I lost contact with her.

You're right about the ear cropping. They could do that better than anyone, vets included, I've ever run across. Maggie won once and had trouble from there on out. Buck lost his only show. Maggie produced a decent dog here and there, but those dogs were more inconsistent in what they produced more than anything else.

[skipper]

Mouth is a trait. That is what you have to remember first and foremost. If you want dogs that have a certain type of mouth on a regular basis, then you have to breed dogs with that type of mouth. If you're inbreeding on dogs that don't have that type of mouth, then it's not something you'll get with any consistent basis. When one dog pops out with the devastating mouth, and if that's what you're really shooting for, then you breed that dog. Whatever dogs come off him with that same or close to the same mouth, you breed those, and so forth and so on through a different breeding combination.

Eventually, if you're selecting (the major idea) the right dogs, then you'll start to cement that trait more and more.

Yes there is no argument that mouth is a trait. However, when heavily inbred some lines loose their traits, even when they are all bred around animals with great mouth. This is what I can't explain. Why inbreeding can weaken those very traits you bred for in the first place. Maybe Jack or Evo who has bred a bigger amount of animals know more?

[FrostyPaws]

They don't lose the mouth because they're heavily inbred, at least not as a whole. They lose the mouth because those dogs haven't been selected for that trait for some generations.

If you take dog A that has a heavy mouth, who is NOT from a line of dogs noted for that, then you're not going to recreate that over and over inside of a few breedings. You have to SELECT that type of mouth over and over to solidify it along the way. Without doing that, it won't ever be where it needs to be.

If you take dog A that has a heavy mouth, who IS from a line of dogs noted for that and has produced it consistently, breeding dog A to other females that have the same trait will get you dogs like you want.

If you heavily inbreed on dogs without selecting for that trait, it's going to be lost. That is the key. Selecting dogs with that trait. It's not the inbreeding; it's the wrong selection for the most part.

[Officially Retired]

I pretty much agree with everything FrostyPaws is saying.

The people who "lose" the traits they're breeding for only do so because they are not selecting the right individuals to inbreed on. They are inbreeding either on dogs that do NOT have the desired trait and/or on dogs that do not throw that trait.

Almost without exception, the very best dogs I have ever owned were inbred dogs ... and so, too, have some of the lamest dogs. I have inbred on the wrong dogs before ... and I have also inbred on the right dogs before.

Further still, even if you inbreed on the right dogs, you still have to be selective in the pups you choose. All inbreeding does is INTENSIFY TRAITS. Some of your inbred pups will have all the SHIT in their gene pool intensified ... while some of the pups will have all of the GOLD intensified ... and so it will be up to you to "flush the shit" and carry forward with the gold

Jack

[Officially Retired]

I pretty much agree with everything FrostyPaws is saying.

The people who "lose" the traits they're breeding for only do so because they are not selecting the right individuals to inbreed on. They are inbreeding either on dogs that do NOT have the desired trait and/or on dogs that do not throw that trait.

Almost without exception, the very best dogs I have ever bred ad kept were inbred dogs ... and so, too, have some of the lamest dogs. I (like anyone) have inbred on the wrong dogs before ... but unlike many I have also inbred on the right dogs before.

Further still, and something so many people forget, even if you inbreed on the right dogs, you still have to be selective in the pups you choose. They will not all be the same "genetically." Keeping in mind that all inbreeding does is INTENSIFY TRAITS, a person must remember that some of your inbred pups will have all the SHIT in their gene pool intensified through the inbreeding ... while some of the pups will have all of the GOLD intensified ... and so it will be up to each person to be selective and "flush the shit" and carry forward with the gold

Jack