Beating the Red Boy 'dead horse'

[CYJ]

Ditto EWO. One can go back and read my Red Boy articles. I tend to lean toward the Calvin Kreebs dogs/William Cable/ Heavy Stidham etc. On that big Red/Red Nose dog that was in the back of that pickup. Iron Side Kennels wanted that dog to be a Red Devil bred dog.

That dog could have not been Red Boy full grown. You have to account for that Catch weight dog being bred to Mc'leod's Susie Q and that bitch having puppies which one was Red Boy.

Red Boy was first Mr. Wilbur Martin's Red Boy who lived in Dillion S.C. He owned Red boy up till the dog was around 14 to 16 months old. Mr. Martin's dog yard was based on Cotton's Bullitt II/Loposays' Colby/ Loposay's Tiger Jack bought from Mr. Carver.

Mr. Martin bred his various bitches to Red Boy. I owned one of them named Young's Liz. I also for awhile owned one of Red Boy's Full Sibling brothers named Miles' Bouncer. Now Mr. Martin knew Mr. Teal and Loposay very well. Either he bought Red Boy as a pup from Mr. Mc'leod or Mr. Teal sold him the Red Boy dog or farmed Red boy to him. I do not recall ever asking Mr. Martin how he got Red Boy. Mr. Mc'leod could have given Red Boy and his Sibling brother Big Mack to Mr. Teal as stud fee pups.

I tried to be nice and just say that Bass bought Red Boy from Mr. Martin. According to Mr. Martin that was not the case. long as I knew him he remained bitter towards Bass on losing Red boy. Mr. Martin was a very bad Acholic, if he started drinking. Would take days for his wife to sober him back up. He told me and A. Howle that Bass took him off and got him drunk. And through some sort of hook and crook deal. Got Red Boy. That was his story.

So the next owner of Red Boy was R.E. Bass. He named the dog Tramp Red Boy. Then later the last owner was Katie Marlowe. Red Boy lived a long dog life and died on Katie's dog yard.

You can click on Red boy's pedigree and read about his siblings. I saw all these dogs including Red Boy. The Mac dog that Mr. Teal had on his dog yard was a extra big catch weight dog. Howard used Mac a lot to check his dogs for gameness. Mac was undershot, and was a hard charging always on you type dog. A real bruiser.

I said all this to say it made more sense to me that the (SIRE) of Red Boy and his siblings was a Calvin Kreeb /William Cable/ heavy in Stidham bred dog. Cheers

[CYJ]

I would like to add again of all those dogs. I liked the Happy dog the best. Happy was around 45 pounds on the chain. Happy was rough like the Big Mac dog and had mouth. Was a nice looking dog.

Happy got loose from his chain and got on a next door neighbor's dog. The lady and children were screaming and praying for all it was worth.

Mr. Mc' Dougal had no break stick and hit the Happy dog behind the head with a piece of two by four or something. Too knock the dog out. Which it did, but caused permanent damage. Happy was blind in both eyes.

Later on at Woody Truett's place. Many years ago in the wild west. The Happy dog was showed on one of W.T.'s dogs. V.J.' Hank was showed on a big staff/Pit dog that Woody owned. This was when the Hank dog turned on and was a killing puller from then on.

R. E. Bass was there that day. Happy was blind and made a excellent show of deep gaminess. Even Bass was impressed but said hell may be even worse for pulling a blind dog like that.

I had planned to breed my Young's Tina bitch to Happy. But before Tina came back in heat, Happy had finally died from that head injury. Was a very good dog. P.S. Woody Truett was another dog man in the game back then. He was one of the first in my area to buy Carver dogs from Mr. Maurice Carver. He was not kin to Wesley Truett. Cheers

[EWO]

Real history. Much appreciated.

I missed your call. We are working a ton of hours and splitting shifts to get every thing covered. Not complaining.

I will try to get back with the next few days.

EWO

[CYJ]

To not create any confusion on the V. Jackson's Hank dog's pedigree. Read the narrative on this dog's pedigree. What I was trying to do is give one a idea of how the Hank dog looked like and type build. V. J. I believe had no pictures of his Hank dog. The Hank Dog was deep chested/ lean supple type dog, like the Klaus' Zeke dog and Indian Bolio. Head shape was more like the Indian Bolo dog. Was marked in same type coloring of buckskin/white markings. White streak head marking in center of head. Had white socking's on all feet and white tip on tail

There is no Klaus' (Herandez') Zeke in the Hank Dog's breeding. There is though, one common ancestor through a female dog named Womack's Mert. Could be some more but do not think so. All these dogs Zeke/Bolio/Mert/; had same Sire, Fitzwater's Goldie.

The connection in the Hank dog is the Lightning I and II/ Hemphill/ Jim Williams dogs. Through the way Mr. Mayfield bred up that Hank dog. IMHO, I believe the better dogs that Mayfield had was his Lightning Dogs crossed with the Black Widow and Widow' siblings. Carver was able to corner the market on the Dibo/ Widow and her sibling dogs. etc.

I reckon this dead horse can now be put out to pasture for good. I graciously thank EWO for helping me too maybe, bring all this to a conclusion. Which ever version one wishes to roll with, roll on. One version may be good as the other.

Just remember if you go back far enough on any of these pedigrees. Without access to the ADBA/ UKC pedigrees. One will run into no info on a Sire or Dam dog. Have access to the UKC pedigree. Go back far enough there. Will run into same similar problem.

This day and time. Look at the dog in front of you. Do like Earl Tudor, check the dog to your satisfaction, that is another science unto it's self. You like the dog, then look at or look up the papers to help guide you in any future breeding's etc.

After four or eight generations we are all on shaky ground. LOL Cheers

[EWO]

Thank you. I like the 'Red Boy dog off a Krebb's' dog' version myself. Who knows, maybe in a few years more information will turn up and we feel somewhat different.

Agreed with grading the dog in front of you. Re-creating something five generations deep is just wishful thinking. My buddy sent me a picture the other day of a 16X16 pit. The caption said "This is the real lie detector test" , or something to that effect.

Thanks again for the input.

Hopefully after the weekend I will go back to a more normal work schedule. Splitting shifts leaves me where I am not sure if I am coming or going. Just got off a 12 hours shift and no idea what I am working til I wake up this afternoon.

EWO

[Einstein]

EWO,

Redboy's sire or Redboy himself?

Ms. Marlowe's yard boy/neighbor told me it was redboys sire that came from some one and his mother is papered correctly

[apeman]

Ms. Marlowe's yard boy/neighbor told me it was redboys sire that came from some one and his mother is papered correctly