the right weight

[DUKE_CITY]

I pick my proper weight in school i dont wait until the real hog hunt to guees.

I use the 3 second skin count to determine if I'm not carrying extra water weight.

I'll prekeep the dog until I get the 3 count. ( after the last schooling the dog will never be hog fat again) i got a good eye when it comes to picking a weight so the skin count tells me the dog is dry and around its pitt weight. Once I feel comfortable where the weight is I'll check the skin count. If i dont get the 3 count at the end of the pre keep I know im still holding water under the skin. from that point I'll shoot 2 cc of dex just to see how I fall on the scale. this will determine the amount of dex I'll use at the end of the keep to make weight. (dry rf1 does a great job of drying your dog out so be careful of the dex and rf1 combined)

I'll bulk the dog back up to about 3 or 4 lbs above the pitt weight and call my weight. (from this point this animal is a athlete and will be supervised everyday all day) it will be put on the scale twice a day and constantly I'll check the 3 count on the skin. You shouldn't be dry at this point.

(1st shot) 2 cc at the beginning of the keep for two reasons. i want to see how the dog weight takes to the dex and i want my dog to be used to working with the dex in its system.


(2nd shot) half way threw the keep I'll shoot the dex again to see how it falls. so if i need to adjust the dex i will after i see how it takes half way threw the keep. (im preparing to fall on weight and I'm still working the dog with dex in its system)

now the last seven days of the keep is tricky. i use the stuff ozzie stevans taught me. about 24 to 48 hours out I'll start my dex. I'll shoot the dex and make weight before the last feed. if im on weight then ozzie taught me how to maintain my weight. if im still over i might shoot 1 more cc of dex or cut the hard dog food completely out and just use brown rice and calfs liver to boost the red blood cells and 2 scoops of rf1. if im under I'll increase the hard dog food. if im on I'll feed my regular way.


so for the keep i shoot dex 3 times and i made sure in the pre keep i got the 3 count on the skin to find proper weight.

if you don't dry your dog out properly i will always be the bigger dog. because im really 2 or 3 pounds heavier with muscle and not water because the dex dried it out. If you not getting a 3 count then you have picked the wrong weight. if you are getting more then a 3 count then you're over dry and should fix it asap. if you are less then 3 days out then cancel.


the dex will keep you from swelling and have you the bigger dog because the dex only knocked the water weight off and not the muscle. alot of guys sit with their dog at its pitt weight for several days or even a couple weeks. the dog will get stale and just won't have the flavor you seen in school.

boxers only touch their pitt weight for for less then 24 hours so make sure your dog only touch his weight for that time.


jack i want you to tell me what you think. i love dex and lost when i dint use it but im undefeated when i use it that way

[FrostyPaws]

I'm not a big proponent of dex like I once was many years ago. I also don't think a 3 count on the dog's skin is optimal for the dog as that's basically dehydrated, bigger dog or not. I've usually always had the bigger dog, and it didn't require having a 3 count on the dog to do so. I certainly don't think dex hurts anything when used as you described. I do believe that giving your dog dex at different points of the keep is a good idea. That way you see if it has any effect on the dog in a negative fashion. The same can be said simply by giving him some dex and then looking at said dog.

I also agree on looking at the dog at close to what I think the dog's optimum weight should be. After doing that, I decide what to do weight wise. I don't bulk the dog back up 3 or 4 lbs above pit weight as that's simply extra weight for no real reason.

I don't use any hard dog food in keep whatsoever. I don't use any RF1 any longer either, though I do think it's a good thing to use if someone wants supplementation in their diet. If you lost when you didn't use dex, it had nothing to do with the dex.

[EWO]

I don't use dex in the keep or at the end of the keep. I use a lot of water in the feed pan. I maintain the dog at a pound or so over pit weight the first half of the keep and the last three weeks or so on weight when I start work. Like posted before I would not want a dog's show weight to be a weight he has never performed at, or never been allowed to work thru.

I disagree with the boxing analogy. Boxers do not perform at their 'fight weight' and dogs do. The reason they do not perform at that low weight is because they simply can't. Boxers and MMA fighters cut weight to get into a lower weight class. It has nothing to with being at an optimal performing weight. I will agree they can't stay there because it is indeed unhealthy, but cutting to a weight has nothing to do with performance, only making a lower weight class. People then rehydrate to a better weight, and in most cases a healthier weight, and in all cases a weight they can perform better at. Dogs do not have that option. They are pulled to a weight, right or wrong, and the they compete at that weight. For dogs the weight is a million more times important than people. People can fix some things with hydration as where a dog is not allowed that safety net.

With that said, I know a bunch of people who use dex with success. Some that are all against it. That is what makes the dog game competitive. If every one did all the things the same we would all have the same dogs in the same shape and every Saturday night the dogs would fight to a draw. EWO

[Officially Retired]

Duke City,

I apologize for missing this question. (I did not intentionally ignore it.)

My own beliefs are as follows:

Everyone whoever gambles or risks stakes is "superstitious" in some kinda way.

That's just the nature of anyone's mindset when it comes to games of "chance."

There will always be some part "skill," some part "luck," and some part "chance" (or styles, etc.).

I do not believe in a 3-count whatsoever.
I believe in a 0.5-1.0 count, that's it.

Anymore than that is a dehydrated dog IMO, and a dehydrated dog is never in its best possible condition.

I believe the following is one of the most important statements that anyone can read:

Just because a person "does something," and is successful, does NOT mean "what they did" was the cause of that success

SO MANY TIMES a dog wins in spite of what his owner does, NOT "because of" what he did

With that said, I don't think a single dog on the face of this earth ever won "because of" the fact his owner used dex on him.

I absolutely DO believe many dogs have LOST because of the amateurish, improper use of dex.

In the end, I personally believe that a "best, lowest weight" can (and should) be achieved without the use of dex.

Jack

[bulldoghistorian]

dont understand the need for dex neither the 3 count , i bring em wet and they are still bigger most of the time
since I started with raw and mashed veggies back in 99 it really opened my eyes

I think there is a couple of things that are essential in getting the weight right

1) know your line
2) know the style
3) know your food

[Doc Ellis]

Frosty- are you still giving DEX a couple days prior to show day? If not, what made you change?

[FrostyPaws]

No Doc. I haven't done that in quite some time. The change was brought about simply because I was cutting out things that were excessive and not needed basically.

[DUKE_CITY]

we use Pedialyte to counter the dehydration. the last 7 days of the keep we use 1oz of pedialyte for every pound of body weight. a 40lb will get 40oz of pedialyte in every feeding during the last week.

without the pedialyte this use of the dex isn't possble. the pedialyte is just like using a v.i. during the last week.


thanks for the feed back and stay safe guys.

[FrostyPaws]

we use Pedialyte to counter the dehydration. the last 7 days of the keep we use 1oz of pedialyte for every pound of body weight. a 40lb will get 40oz of pedialyte in every feeding during the last week.

without the pedialyte this use of the dex isn't possble. the pedialyte is just like using a v.i. during the last week.


thanks for the feed back and stay safe guys.

Duke, you can hyperhydrate a dog throughout the entire keep, and towards the end, simply remove the excess fluid, and the dog will shed the excess weight without any issues. Dex, nor anything else, is needed. Pedialyte is used for electrolyte replacement, along with rehydration. Dogs don't lose electrolytes like we do, so that's just something else excessive that's not needed. If the dog was hyperhydrated throughout your keep, even at the end, there's no need to worry about deyhdration.

And no matter what we think about pedialyte, etc, NOTHING is just like using an IV except an IV. IV is basically assimilated when it hits the vein. That can't be said for anything that has to be drank or eaten.

[DUKE_CITY]

we do hydrate threw the whole keep. we use 1oz of water for every pound of body weight. the last week the water gets substituted with pedialyte.

with the use of rf1, oils, raw feed and Pedialyte our dogs are ready to be dried out.

the dex not only dries us out properly but it is a anti-inflammatory. so our lips are like leather. (less fang calls) and our head & nose won't swell do to the pig trying to pull us out. my biggest fear is a good nose hog. I breed for great mouth so keeping the swelling down around the nose and the eyes are big concerns. dex makes me sleep easy the night before. lol

being so dry and not swelled it makes it so much easier to find a vein during the aftercare.

the good with Dex outweighs the bad.