Early Starter v Slow Starters

[S_B]

I agree Jack with everything you said here, great post. I'm not just a "nodder" either.

The one thing you said that is the most glaring fact in dogmen is that ability to "SEE" and or feel what you have in a bulldog. I've learned bad signs are our emotions tied to a macho stigma placed on these dogs by ignorant dogmen. A truly bad sign is when you've done everything correctly and your dog isn't a bulldog.

I've never understood why dogmen brag about how many they've culled, there can only be two reasons for all the culling.
#1. They have no idea what they are looking at.
#2. They have really shitty dogs.

I'll add another, there are those who are looking to stop one instead of looking to manage one correctly.

S_B

[Officially Retired]

I agree Jack with everything you said here, great post. I'm not just a "nodder" either.
The one thing you said that is the most glaring fact in dogmen is that ability to "SEE" and or feel what you have in a bulldog. I've learned bad signs are our emotions tied to a macho stigma placed on these dogs by ignorant dogmen. A truly bad sign is when you've done everything correctly and your dog isn't a bulldog.

Good point.

Only after you've done everything on your part, as the owner, do you have the right then to judge your dog.

Then you know that the dog is not up to standard as a bulldog ... rather than you not being up to standard as an owner.

I've never understood why dogmen brag about how many they've culled, there can only be two reasons for all the culling.
#1. They have no idea what they are looking at.
#2. They have really shitty dogs.

True again. Or both.

I'll add another, there are those who are looking to stop one instead of looking to manage one correctly.
S_B

Yep. People who are TRYING to stop their dogs are basically malicious assholes ... with huge egos, but tiny brains, and no heart.

The best teachers are those who try (and are able) to bring out THE BEST in their students.

What you describe would be like a high school teacher TRYING to make all his students FAIL ... he is no "educator" he is just an asshole.

I think the most glaring example of what you mention I can remember was almost 20 years ago, when Pinky and the Brain *bragged* about killing a dog who didn't crawl, for the second time, when he placed a bale of hay between the dog and its foe. He rolled two dogs out to the end, and made one crawl to the other dog (which it did) ... and then this lifetime idiot, Pinky, placed a bale of hay between the dog and its opponent ... and the dog stopped crawling ... and Pinky killed the dog, because he wasn't "game enough."

If ever there were the embodiment of everything that is wrong with a dog-wasting, wanna-be dogman, Pinky and the Brain would be first in line for this award. Suffering from "short man's complex" his entire life, he abused dogs, he did not "test" them properly. And, true to form, as with all "ruthless" types, his ACTUAL RECORD was mediocre at best.

He killed a shitload of dogs that could have done well in other hands, dogs with awesome talents, but who didn't pass his "ruthless tests." Funny thing is, those dogs that did somehow pass his "tests" were never very remarkable, maybe 1- 2xWs.

Which brings up another point: THE best dogs are always highly-intelligent ... they are NOT just "dead game plugs" ... and so IF you create a set of standards that is so fucking insurmountable that ONLY a DG, fucking retarded dog will pass ... then the best you will ever hope to have are a bunch of rock-headed, STUPID, DG dogs ... who will NEVER reach an elite level.

The BEST dogs have THE BRAINS to know what's up, too. They're not just stupid-game.

Wanting a high-percentage of gameness is good, so long as a person is REALISTIC

However, the worst thing that ever could happen to a dog is to be owned by someone with UNrealistic beliefs as to gameness (and a total unwillingness to allow a dog to mature).

Jack

[Milehighmisfit]

It also the old bull and young bull standing on top of the hill story. The young bull says, "Hey, Pops, let's run down this hill and F*&K a couple of those heifers". The old bull replies, "Son, let's walk down there and F&^K them all".

Dogs no different, maturity is a must. EWO

That is hilarious, well put. I have a good amount of experience with human combatants but no so much with the dogs but the similarities are striking in regards to letting one mature to their full potential. I once trained at a gym that had a similar approach to Pinky and the Brain. They pissed off so much talent and ruined potential fighters, mentally. The fact is when you have a bunch of 18yr old kids scrapping with each other often times the bully type will win or the one who is overly confident. I have 18yr old students that are physical specimens but will break under pressure. They act like world beaters when they are dishing it out but will give up when the going gets tough. These kids need to know that someone believes in them and that there coach is there to take care of them and is trying to put more into them, and not always test them through hard sparring day in and day out. If I see one of my young charges getting beat up a little in a sparring session getting frustrated and beat more than I think they are ready for, I stop it. I'll sit the kid and talk about how we can improve their skill set and build a better game plan. That student will not get challenged like that again until they have mentally healed. With humans gameness often grows with age, and the ones that are "hot" at an earlier age, rarely turn out
to be the best fighters. Just like Jack said, intelligence is a huge factor with any successful fighter. Intelligent fighters analyze things and don't just automatically believe they are the baddest things around. They need to believe in their skill set, know they have the right conditioning, and know they have the tools to get the job done. Just like the dogs, there "schooling" needs to be fun and they will get tested harder and harder as they mature. When I work with my young fighters, I can sense when they "crack". Often times they have already given up before a sparring session begins, especially if their sparring partner has beaten them before . You can see it their facial expression, you can tell by how they are breathing, see it in their eyes etc etc.

Also, often times the guys that come out sparring super aggressive, it is out of fear. They are just trying to end things quickly to avoid getting hit and being taken into deep water. This style uses excess energy especially when the fight or flight kicks in and adrenaline dump happens. These type of guys start blowing out after 1 or 2 minutes. Go watch any amateur boxing or kickboxing event. The pace is a furry for about 30 seconds and then.......they can't even keep their hands up they are so tired.

The gyms that have the mentality I described above basically use the crap shoot method. They have enough prospects coming through the door that they can run through them and still have a couple outstanding prospects that will rise to the top regardless of how bad their schooling was. These types of places are not building talent, just ruining students.

[Officially Retired]

Anyone who's known me back in the 90s, when Poncho was alive, knows that I used to call Poncho ... The Old Bull ...

That was exactly his fighting style: expend no energy, make the dog wear itself out, then put them away.

[loot]

I was guilty of some of that when I first started. This is a good tread.

[bulldoghistorian]

I understood that an apbt of 2 years old considering his size and breed would be actually more like a 25 year od human
I do understand some of the waiting but considering time one can match a dog in his prime a 2 year old should be ready to have a show ,

[Officially Retired]

I understood that an apbt of 2 years old considering his size and breed would be actually more like a 25 year od human
I do understand some of the waiting but considering time one can match a dog in his prime a 2 year old should be ready to have a show ,

Some 2 year olds are ready for a show, some are not even started.

Chinaman wasn't ready till he was 4.

2 years old is not a dog's prime ... ages 3-5 are a dog's prime years.

Starting a dog at 18 months to 2 years, schooling from 2-3, and matching as they approach 3 is best practice.

Jack

[S_B]

Great post @ Milehighmisfit

[CRISIS]

colors WAS a great movie!

[realitytv]

Jack, in Ed Faron's book Pinky describes looking at WSK Rapid Roy for an hour...it says the next morning he let him go again to prove to BLEEDWATER that Roy wasn't a cur...real crazy...and hooked him shortly thereafter....