Dog Cloning

[HAMMER49]

It's being done in the performance horse industry. They have been more than a few cutting horses cloned in hopes of replicating an outstanding individual. As it would be with the dogs, all of the genetic make up would be the same, but ability is the question. Just because you are a clone does not guarantee the ability possessed will be carried along. Interesting none the least, but is it really worth the trouble? If it's a male, you can damn near have him live forever if you were to store enough semen for your future plans.

[Black Hand]

If we aren't expecting a clone to have the same abilities...
Why are we expecting a linebred dog to have the same abilities?
You will never come as close as a clone.

While nothing in life is guaranteed; I don't think it's one person on here who hasn't looked at a ped like THESE SHOULD BE GOOD! And that's without even knowing what the dogs genetic make up is in reality. With a clone, you are certain.

[Officially Retired]

The only cloned dog I saw, previous to this video, came out a different color from the original dog.

The woman sold her home to pay for the "resurrection" of her beloved pet, and it didn't even look like the original

Either there is a lot of work that still has to be done in cloning science or that woman was defrauded.

They cashed her $40,000 check and went to the pound to get her replacement

[HAMMER49]

If we aren't expecting a clone to have the same abilities...
Why are we expecting a linebred dog to have the same abilities?
You will never come as close as a clone.

While nothing in life is guaranteed; I don't think it's one person on here who hasn't looked at a ped like THESE SHOULD BE GOOD! And that's without even knowing what the dogs genetic make up is in reality. With a clone, you are certain.

I'm no scientist, but I wouldn't think that you are getting the complete reincarnation of an animal. True the genetic make up is the same, but the measurement of this animals heart and desire can not be reborn. Even as a clone, the dog would be an individual. Know any identical twins that are not as good as one another? One a little faster, and the other a little more athletic? Look at litters of dogs, rebreedings, and inbreedings. You are locking in a certain set of characteristics, but you don't get every littermate being exactly the same. I could be dead wrong, but I just don't believe you will have the same ability in a clone as the original. Could be better, or it could be worse. One thing I do know is the clone would have the best of everything because of its predecessor.

In a post I made earlier one particular individual told me I shouldn't assume anything about these dogs, and breedings. If one is not to assume, and or hope to create something particular, what is the point of breeding?

[Black Hand]

I'm no scientist, but I wouldn't think that you are getting the complete reincarnation of an animal. True the genetic make up is the same, but the measurement of this animals heart and desire can not be reborn. Even as a clone, the dog would be an individual. Know any identical twins that are not as good as one another? One a little faster, and the other a little more athletic? Look at litters of dogs, rebreedings, and inbreedings. You are locking in a certain set of characteristics, but you don't get every littermate being exactly the same. I could be dead wrong, but I just don't believe you will have the same ability in a clone as the original. Could be better, or it could be worse. One thing I do know is the clone would have the best of everything because of its predecessor.

In a post I made earlier one particular individual told me I shouldn't assume anything about these dogs, and breedings. If one is not to assume, and or hope to create something particular, what is the point of breeding?

Litter mates are not the same as clones, not even remotely as they are coming from different sperm cells and different eggs. In the clones case, all the genetic material is being placed there and will be identical. The twins is a good argument, but they differ for the same reason a clone will. And it is because of genetic mutation after the egg splits into two. The clone can also experience some small genetic mutation. My biggest fear with the clone would be traces of mitochondrial DNA from the donor and environmental impact the surrogate mother might have on them. That's why would I prefer to have my own bitches egg and own surrogate who was very closely related to the dog being cloned. It wouldn't sit well with me knowing a labradoodle egg was used for the process and a cockspaniel was the surrogate mother. He might come out a little quirky after that lol

[S_B]

Seems like cheating to me. I mean why clone what was instead of creating what will be?

A big part of a dog's worth in our fraternity hinges a lot on who, what, when, why and where....sure the dog's genetics play a role, but if not in the right hands things may not get realized. So unless you clone Ken Allen and Tornado don't expect the same results.

S_B

[Black Hand]

Ken Allen and tornado are actually great example of why cloning could be beneficial. A lot of focus is on the performance side, but I really don't know too many people who would spend that kind of money to clone an already great dog only to risk losing it. Tornado was not bred much, most of her career revolved around performance. We also really don't know the prolonged effect anabolics had on her either. Hence, there is not much tornado blood around. Had she been cloned, tornado dogs may have a very different place in today's world.

[Officially Retired]

Seems like cheating to me. I mean why clone what was instead of creating what will be?

A big part of a dog's worth in our fraternity hinges a lot on who, what, when, why and where....sure the dog's genetics play a role, but if not in the right hands things may not get realized. So unless you clone Ken Allen and Tornado don't expect the same results.

S_B

Ken Allen and tornado are actually great example of why cloning could be beneficial. A lot of focus is on the performance side, but I really don't know too many people who would spend that kind of money to clone an already great dog only to risk losing it. Tornado was not bred much, most of her career revolved around performance. We also really don't know the prolonged effect anabolics had on her either. Hence, there is not much tornado blood around. Had she been cloned, tornado dogs may have a very different place in today's world.

I have to agree with S_B.

I would think that a better program could be created by line-/inbreeding on Tornado than by cloning.

And certainly cheaper

What would you rather do?
Spend $40,000 on cloning "one" IMPERFECT Tornado ...
Or ...
Breed Tornado back to her daddy one heat (and get 6-8 pups) ... back to her half-brother the next heat (and get 6-8 pups) ... and then to her baddest, most-close SONS after that?

I would say any dogman would be WAY further along "preserving Tornado" that way, by making key family breedings with her, than by getting "one" (alleged) clone of her.

FACT: Ultimately, you have to do BREEDINGS to preserve traits

Even in a best case scenario, spending $40,000 for "one" pup (that might die of parvo, get bit by a snake, etc.) will NEVER be as effective as quality breeding management

You get MORE pups (options, etc.) by making BREEDINGS than you do by spending a small fortune to clone "a" dog.

Jack

PS: Tornado's traits were lost because Ken Allen wasn't a breeder, he was a dog fighter.

[Officially Retired]

Let me add something:

Would Fletcher Chavis and David Tant have done a better job creating their bloodlines "cloning" Yellow John and Yellow ... or did they do just fine by LINE- and INBREEDING on them?

Jack

[Black Hand]

Let me add something:

Would Fletcher Chavis and David Tant have done a better job creating their bloodlines "cloning" Yellow John and Yellow ... or did they do just fine by LINE- and INBREEDING on them?

Jack

I do not think it has to be one VS the other. You can use both simultaneously. I would prefer to use on a female since you can breed the balls off a male and freeze his semen if need be. But a female, much more limited.