Who is Hughes and Holcomb?

[CYJ]

That is easy to answer on Yellow John in the Dusty dog's pedigree. First in that Yellow John being tight in the Red Boy line and being a four-time winner. Made this dog desirable to continue breeding into the Chavis' Jocko line. Chavis did own this dog. S. McNeil may have handled all, or I believe at least one time the shows that Yellow John was in. Chavis was letting McNeil handle most of his shows till he pulled that crap on Apples vs Molly Bee. Molly Bee probably would have won anyhow. But what McNeil did to Apples did not help Apples at all. Apples was holding her own and may have made Molly Bee go a longer distance than Molly Bee had went before.

McNeil was high on the Yellow John dog and said the dog was a very good dog. Another reason along with a strong prey drive, Yellow John evidently had mouth to boot. I never saw Yellow John in a show. Going on common sense and what McNeil told me about Yellow John. McNeil was a excellent dog person and a excellent conditioner. V.J. and others helped him in the beginning of his time in the dogs. He knew a very good dog when he saw one. Sadly, the desire to make too much money the fast lane way. Sent him in a downward spiral and caused problems to other dog persons etc. Johnny Law had him in a big bind, which could have put his wife and young children in the street. Was many years ago, all is forgiven. Today he raises and hunts top of the line Walker Coon Hounds. I wish him the best. Cheers

[EWO]

ery well said.

The Yellow John dog was one of the Red Boy dogs that could bite, really bite. He had a littermate brother that is was said that his dry food had to be soaked to mush so he could eat it. "Cotton mouth/couldn't bust an egg" were the references used for JR.

During that bad time there were a number of things that happened that had a number of people shaking in their boots. I was a young kid and only heard the stories. But this is how things stick. I was lucky enough to come in under the wing of someone who did not let me make the mistakes most young guys in the dogs make. I did not have to ruin two or three or more good dogs in order to learn a particular lesson. I was lucky for that edge. Back then dog men clicked up with their local counterparts as the internet and social media didn't put each other in each other's backyards with the click of a key. The two guys that helped me most laid down some rules early on and most of them were how and who I chose to be associated with in the dogs.

There was always a 'banned list'. I could run in our circle and go out with our circle how I pleased. The above guy made that list when I was a young kid and a friend of his in NC made that list as well. I remember having a nice male in the early 90's and a weight popped up. When the owner's name popped up I was told not to pick it up, nor have mine picked up. It was sort of said, it is 'them or us'. I always chose 'us'.

They used to tell me that every time you pull out of your driveway with a dog you have to be extremely lucky to come back home that night. Every single time. Johnny Law only has to be lucky once and your life takes a major blow. So, doing multiple bad things, or doing things with people who do multiple bad things really lessens your odds of getting back home that night.

The Yellow John dog was one of the better Red Boy dogs ever. The 3/4 Red Boy dogs when Yellow John was bred to his daughters and to daughters of red Boy were nice, as they were winning and then producing. The triple bred dogs is where the wheels started to come off. The inbreeding became popular as half were selling puppies and others were trying to recreate times past and neither lead to good things, much less great things.

From those earliest tripled up breedings the 'today's Red Boy' started to pop up. Length and height remained but girth and bone faded. The over time the dogs got smaller and smaller as the inbreeding took effect. Those dogs back then were 'hoss-type'. For me, based on opinion alone, the RBJ breedings thru Tant and Waccamaw and Chavis did more Red Boy preservation than the tripled up Yellow John breedings. I don't think many give credit to the making of the Jocko dog and not many give the credit to what the Jocko family brought, maybe even less is given to Chavis and his peers who kept going back to that well when the pure Red Boy dogs became the craze.

Babbling on. Back then, anything that won four, in that area, in that time, was worth breeding. And if those dogs fend well in that same way, sometimes a 'star' is born.

EWO

[Frank43]

What do you know about this stud to Cottingham Sheba dog. She was supposed to be cold but made good dogs. These dogs don’t seem like dumb red boy dogs to me.
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...hp?dog_id=2866

[Frank43]

That is easy to answer on Yellow John in the Dusty dog's pedigree. First in that Yellow John being tight in the Red Boy line and being a four-time winner. Made this dog desirable to continue breeding into the Chavis' Jocko line. Chavis did own this dog. S. McNeil may have handled all, or I believe at least one time the shows that Yellow John was in. Chavis was letting McNeil handle most of his shows till he pulled that crap on Apples vs Molly Bee. Molly Bee probably would have won anyhow. But what McNeil did to Apples did not help Apples at all. Apples was holding her own and may have made Molly Bee go a longer distance than Molly Bee had went before.

McNeil was high on the Yellow John dog and said the dog was a very good dog. Another reason along with a strong prey drive, Yellow John evidently had mouth to boot. I never saw Yellow John in a show. Going on common sense and what McNeil told me about Yellow John. McNeil was a excellent dog person and a excellent conditioner. V.J. and others helped him in the beginning of his time in the dogs. He knew a very good dog when he saw one. Sadly, the desire to make too much money the fast lane way. Sent him in a downward spiral and caused problems to other dog persons etc. Johnny Law had him in a big bind, which could have put his wife and young children in the street. Was many years ago, all is forgiven. Today he raises and hunts top of the line Walker Coon Hounds. I wish him the best. Cheers

I hear you on the Jocko cross. I’m interested in keeping it without jocko. If I cross it would you Bolio tombstone dogs. Any opinions on yellow john/Cottingham crosses

[Frank43]

ery well said.

The Yellow John dog was one of the Red Boy dogs that could bite, really bite. He had a littermate brother that is was said that his dry food had to be soaked to mush so he could eat it. "Cotton mouth/couldn't bust an egg" were the references used for JR.

During that bad time there were a number of things that happened that had a number of people shaking in their boots. I was a young kid and only heard the stories. But this is how things stick. I was lucky enough to come in under the wing of someone who did not let me make the mistakes most young guys in the dogs make. I did not have to ruin two or three or more good dogs in order to learn a particular lesson. I was lucky for that edge. Back then dog men clicked up with their local counterparts as the internet and social media didn't put each other in each other's backyards with the click of a key. The two guys that helped me most laid down some rules early on and most of them were how and who I chose to be associated with in the dogs.

There was always a 'banned list'. I could run in our circle and go out with our circle how I pleased. The above guy made that list when I was a young kid and a friend of his in NC made that list as well. I remember having a nice male in the early 90's and a weight popped up. When the owner's name popped up I was told not to pick it up, nor have mine picked up. It was sort of said, it is 'them or us'. I always chose 'us'.

They used to tell me that every time you pull out of your driveway with a dog you have to be extremely lucky to come back home that night. Every single time. Johnny Law only has to be lucky once and your life takes a major blow. So, doing multiple bad things, or doing things with people who do multiple bad things really lessens your odds of getting back home that night.

The Yellow John dog was one of the better Red Boy dogs ever. The 3/4 Red Boy dogs when Yellow John was bred to his daughters and to daughters of red Boy were nice, as they were winning and then producing. The triple bred dogs is where the wheels started to come off. The inbreeding became popular as half were selling puppies and others were trying to recreate times past and neither lead to good things, much less great things.

From those earliest tripled up breedings the 'today's Red Boy' started to pop up. Length and height remained but girth and bone faded. The over time the dogs got smaller and smaller as the inbreeding took effect. Those dogs back then were 'hoss-type'. For me, based on opinion alone, the RBJ breedings thru Tant and Waccamaw and Chavis did more Red Boy preservation than the tripled up Yellow John breedings. I don't think many give credit to the making of the Jocko dog and not many give the credit to what the Jocko family brought, maybe even less is given to Chavis and his peers who kept going back to that well when the pure Red Boy dogs became the craze.

Babbling on. Back then, anything that won four, in that area, in that time, was worth breeding. And if those dogs fend well in that same way, sometimes a 'star' is born.

EWO

Very good post about watching associations. I hear you on continued inbreeding. You can ruin a line. Some breeders have worked with it. You need a compatible out and come back to the line.

[EWO]

I'm no breeder by any stretch of the imagination.

I have used the Mims and Mims crosses for years because the source was just a few minutes down the road. Secondly, and maybe even better, when the prices of puppies skyrocketed the Mims puppies were cheap in comparison. For $300 I could get a dog I felt pretty sure would scratch (maybe the highest percentage of game dogs produced than any other) and then I had to wait for either him to knock hos own teeth out or have enough mouth to defend himself.

This blend crosses with just about anything.

I am going on twenty years now with the same corps group of dogs. Mims in then Mims out then Mims in. This has kept the percentage of game dogs pretty high. On average the mouth went up a bit but most of the time traded one type of crazy for another.

The in and out plan will work.

EWO

[CYJ]

Powell who owned the 4X winner Termite. Had probably the last of those dogs more bred to the Jocko side. I do not know how much of that stock was preserved. He is back home now and did do an interview awhile back on the You Tube. Only he would know if any of his line was still intact. That's been a lot of years ago. Cheers

[EWO]

My brain does not work like it once did, and for the life of me I can't remember if HC bred to Dusty or Lanier's/Triplett's Rex Boy.

The female was down from some Snooty/Pool Hall Red stuff. So, there is always a story. He lined up a weekend trip once for a show and a visit with Katie Marlowe, to Georgia for the Snooty/Pool Hall Red females. The cost of the dogs were minimal, even for the time. Gas was relatively cheap as well. But what cost was the phone bill lining up being at the show and making the two stops along the way. When you pay $300 or so dollars for dogs and then to make that happen get a $300 phone bill someone has to pay. In today's world we can pick up a phone and call over everywhere as many times and for as long as we like for the same flat rate phone bill. Back then you paid long distance rates to call into the next county. Sort of flashed back.

I will have to ask whether the 'litter of black dogs' as they were always referred to were off Dusty or Rex Boy. There were six or 7 in the litter and they all went to the show and all won matches.

Years later HC said the Dusty II was the beginning to the end of the Red Boy dogs as stand alone type dogs, if it had not already happened. The statement had nothing to with Dusty II himself, just the fact by then, hindsight was quite revealing. By the time he said that Red Boy dogs were the most popular bulldogs on the planet. They were somewhat easy to obtain and very easy to sell.

The rule of thumb was the easier are they are to find and obtain the more likely the dog would be a flop. The smaller, less know guys who didn't breed a lot of dogs and sold even less was the place to shop if you were looking for a Red Boy dog who had a good chance of being a bulldog. The Whitley dogs, the older Cottingham dogs, the older Medlin's Outlaw dogs, etc. These dogs were links to the original Red Boy family, mostly because they had to earn their spot based on their actions not their lineage. The actual preservation was being done on a much lesser level/lesser known yet more effective.

The mass producers sent the family into a downward spiral.

EWO

[Frank43]

How do you explain rocky. The line maintained some fire. Rocky made bullet and rom. Rocky was still pure red boy. Bullet was yellow Cottingham over a rbj female. You don’t think much of storing prepotency by inbreeding if the right breeders do it. Seems the line was prepotent.

[EWO]

I am no breeder so I can't offer much of an explanation.

Based on personal experience I would say Rocky's bottom half is more impactful than his top half. The Medlin's Outlaw dog, the Whaley dog, Swinson's Carolina Rose, Rex Boy. These were all dogs that rode up and down the road with different people. I am sure those four liked a lot of the same things but still they were different. Even tho it is the same family it is a form of selection, and that selection can provide some hybrid vigor.

It looks pure, or mostly pure, but Rocky is a pretty good blend. If a dog like that performs and then produces, I am not all that surprised.

EWO