Redboy / jocko has made more dead game dogs !

[Officially Retired]

I am a EWO fan also Ca. Jack, and all these other fellows that put up with me. EWO appears to be a dog man going places. Have enjoyed our personnel chats immensely.

LOL, I am a fan of you both

[Pit Bull Committed]

if I was a MOD I would have locked this thread b4 it turned this ugly...smh

I don't see the problem in this thread. Things just got more interesting. Keep it going Jack! & PLEASE do not delete any posts! These are great posts about the breed. Thanks guys!

[Blueprint]

We have stuff coming down from that blood and it's been super. http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=37962 Heavy heavy mouth. http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=37961 and this bitch we have also http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=37960 They are 9yrs old.

[Officially Retired]

if I was a MOD I would have locked this thread b4 it turned this ugly...smh

I don't see the problem in this thread. Things just got more interesting. Keep it going Jack! & PLEASE do not delete any posts! These are great posts about the breed. Thanks guys!

Sometimes you have to shake the tree to get the apples

[Officially Retired]

We have stuff coming down from that blood and it's been super. http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=37962

Very interesting ... and very similar indeed.

Would be an exciting candidate to cross with Coca-Rilla.

I was always too scared to lose my percentages with some of that stuff, but in retrospect (and with the aid of these research tools), you can start to see a pattern, and I wish I would have more.

Some of those 50% crosses were phenomenal ... some not so ... but a dab of it can really make all the difference in the world, so good luck.

Jack

[Officially Retired]

Interesting ... searching the pedigrees ... the winningest Redboy cross ever had not a drop of Jocko:

Jacobs' Gr Ch Assassin II (10xW)

[Officially Retired]

Here are some great, pure Bolio/Carver-type dogs ... Grand Champions of Grand Champions ... NO Eli ... NO RBJ ... no real cross needed.

• Meaddor's Gr Ch MelonHead (14xW, 1xL)
• Ch Robert T (9xW, 1xL)
• Color Bros' Gr Ch Chance (8xW)
• Abraham's Gr Ch Queen of Hearts (8xW)
• S.T.P.'s Gr Ch Buck (7xW, POR, ROM)

These are some of the great dogs I could find, with NO RBJ in there.

The list of Grand Champions over 7 wins with ELI blood in them is OFF THE CHARTS, mostly Eli/Carver, which of course includes Chinaman dogs and Boyles dogs.
There simply is no question that Eli dogs produce the winningest/baddest dogs out there. (Doesn't mean they're game, or in high-percentage, but they're BAD.)

The winningest RBJ dog, of course, was Gr Ch Barracuda (9xW), but again he needed 1/4 Bolio/Tombstone to get there.

There simply ARE NO pure RBJ Grand Champions with more than 6 wins
(If I am wrong, please show them to me.)

Yet there ARE Bolio/Carver dogs with this many wins
This means pure Carver/Bolio dogs have managed to win 7, 8, 9, and 14 wins withOUT RBJ ... whereas RBJ dogs CAN'T win that many times without Bolio/Tombstone blood in there

Interestingly, the winningest Redboy dogs of all time (7x, 8x, 10x) actually have NO JOCKO ... they're Redboy/Carver, Redboy/Frisco, Redboy/Eli ... and Redboy/Loposay. (Only 4 dogs.)
So, AGAIN, the Eli/Carver has to be in there
This is especially interesting because RBJ gets BRED MORE than all the other RB combos, and yet can't produce THE baddest dogs.

The MAJORITY of the multi-winningest dogs are basically Eli/Carver or Eli/Bolio (including Boyles/Chinaman) ... or straight Eli.

Just some preliminary findings using the Search Feature

Jack

PS: I ignore mentioning old, old-time dogs and speak only of more modern dogs.

[bamaman]

I believe Jocko was down from the Fitzwater Goldie ,Dibo cross...And we all know who Goldie was..Anyway jmo and some very nice reading here.

[Officially Retired]

There was definitely some Dibo in Ch Jocko, but there was less than 5% Goldie.

[Officially Retired]

A little more history ...

As for the claim of Jocko "adding mouth" ... here are some more facts:

Jocko's sister Ch Apples was bit down by the Eli/Loposay-bred Gr Ch Molly Bee ... while their brother Ch Argo was whipped by the Eli/Carver/Clouse-bred Ch Bumper.

So, hey, hats off to Ch Jocko and his littermates.
Three Champions in one litter is something we should all take our hats off to.

But, when push comes to shove, and when Champions-meet-Champions, they ALL got/get knocked off by the wayside by Eli and Eli/Carver dogs. Same with Nico, same with Zinc, etc.

The title of "Baddest" and "Best" is elusive ... and there is no shame in winning 1, 2, and 3 good solid shows.
That's all that can be asked of most dogs, and doing this is a fine accomplishment. Even losing game is an accomplishment.

Still, historically-speaking, and as a matter of ongoing strategy, the great thing about a resource like this, the input of old-timers, and the ability to crunch numbers and quantify statistics ... is we can start to see patterns forming folks ... and, as the elevation gets higher, we need to re-think some of the claims (as well as our own beliefs) as to which way we want to go in our breeding programs, if we truly want "the baddest" and "the best."

Wish I had this resource available 20 years ago

Jack