Sport Dog Food

[S_B]

I'm kind of hung up on the "huge amounts" of water if using fish. That kind of contradicts the digestibility of fish which is the most easily assimilated protein of all meats, even oily fish.


As far as dog kibble I tend to agree it runs on the "dry" side, maybe the processing as fish is a more delicate meat source? Anyhow it sounds backwards to me that fish would burn hotter in a dogs gut as it is digested with much less energy than other meats.

I tend to look at nature (don't laugh ) for simple answers to these types of questions, as the scientific answers are over thought and complicated imo.

What mammals feed on fish? Big brute types like Bears
What mammals feed on birds? Small scavengers
What mammals feed on red meat? The apex predators Lions and Tigers Oh My!

I like to incorporate all meat sources, I let the individual tell me which they work best on. What I've found for myself is the endurance runners tend to do best with more chicken while the true power houses need more red meat to support their strength.

I'm always open and continue to learn, this topic I very much enjoy.

S_B

[EWO]

I agree. I'm no science guy either.

I have to with what I see. And I usually reference one of my first posts on this board along this same topic. If a guy wins on corn flakes and cabbage, and turns another onto the corn flakes and cabbage. A person will be hard pressed to get the science of meats and fats and what not conveyed to the corn flakes and cabbage guy. People like to go with what works for them.

Lil Man was being worked for his fourth. A dog that had no stop in him and would work himself til he fell, all day and every day. His work load was near twice that of any other dog I had seen and I felt like I was killing him to make him breathe.

I tried to work some fish in as we got going and the next day he blew hot. I chalked it up to 'they are not machines'. Skipped a day and he was fine. I did not attribute anything to the fish. A week or so later I fed a fish filet, Flounder I think, and he blew out in less than 20 minutes.

I went back over everything I had done and the only thing different was the fish. I finished him out and he made #4 with no breathing issues.

Being I am not the smartest guy sometimes I have to be hit over the head. I took two young dogs and immediately started them thru the paces of a keep, just like it was several stacks involved. When I thought they were both off water and ready to really give it their all for an extended period of time I added a fish filet to their diet, rested a day, fed another filet and back to work. Neither dog made it 20 minutes without blowing hot. I pulled them off the fish and they both went back to being their normal.

Since it works so well for the sled dogs in the frigid temperatures my first thought is that it is the temperature moreso than the dogs. No science, just an assumption.

A friend of mine uses fish and he works his dogs on a 5 and 2 schedule. He says he uses fish on the 5th work day because the nutrient dense proteins really aid in recovery, but he pours the water to them on the 5th day of work and the 1st day of rest in their feed. The second day is back to the chicken based diet and he feels he gets a good recovery.

The kicker is he lived in up state New York, which is also much colder on average than rural NC.

But I have read others comments that it works for them.

Kinda sorta, go figure?

EWO

[EWO]

I have never seen that chart explained.

Is that rate for the time it is ate, assimilated and a dump?

Is it the time it is ate, assimilated and worked it's way out of the bloodstream, then dumped?

Not being a science guy I would say the fish proteins are quicker thru the gut but the nutrient dense proteins maybe hang around in the liver and kidneys/blood longer.

Great topic.

EWO

[CYJ]

One thing I learned from not watching the dehydration process on a hard working dog. Was I did not pull up that skin everyday and I did not give a broth fluid drink with some liquid supplements 12 hours from main work out.

A excellent dog nutrition book I had at one time. Taught that a working dog's endurance was increased up to 85% with additional water in presence of good fats. A dog gets most of it's energy from the fats in presence of adequate water. Not so much from carbohydrates per say.

I had this dog up to six hours trotting and running on a 80 foot swinging jenny. Probably half of that was enough for the local completion I was dealing with. The results of missing enough water cost me the show. I lost a deep game dog to a rank hard biting cur that was never matched again or heard of. I was ahead for around thirty minutes, and was seeing the quit in the other dog. All of a sudden the bottom fell out of my dog,it could not even stand. Was not blowing hot for sure. Just no electrolytes to make the heart/lungs and muscles to continue working.

You can not just assume your dog is getting enough water in the keep. In the future I added enough broth to cover the kibble and let soak. I started adding a water/broth supplements 12 hours before work out. Things got to looking much better. I got a good win over Mr. Pratt with Braddock's Mr. Clean.

Certain proteins will digest slower or faster for sure. Still, if you use kibble in the feed mix. The main workout will eventually go out to a 28- 30 hour feeding. Those last three workout rest days need to stay at a 28 to 30 hour feed cycle. If using kibble in the feed mix. One will make a bad mistake if on those last three rest days one puts the dog back on a 24 hour feed cycle. When it has been on a 28 to 30 hour feed cycle for that last main week of work.

Dog will not have enough time to clean out all the way, can run the dog hot. Why it is a bad mistake to enter your dog in Multi dog shows.
The main dog show personnel always gets to go first, one can find themselves going too early or too late as the show continues. Either way can affect the way your dog performs.

Water drank by the dog at a specific time will clear the dog's kidneys in six hours. So in that 28 to 30 hour period as the dog goes through a making weight and peaking process. If your dog is weighing light after each clean out period and walk, rub down etc. You can give the specific amount of ounces of fluids to make weight up to six hours before final weigh in and show time. J, Crenshaw says it is possible up to three hours.

Most will not give any water after the 30-28- 24 hour last feeding before final weigh in and show time. If dog comes up 1/4/ 1/2 to 1 pound light or more. Could be from slow dehydration. Dog may not run hot. Still if the dog show goes a while,is a very rough show. One's dog will grow weaker as the time progress. Better to be a tad on the wet side than dry at all. I know I have this post bouncing all around. We have to try and see all the factors involved.

By the time one gets a lot of this figured out and has a good system that works for them. Murphy's law sets in and starts wrecking havoc in your life and your dog yard. If you are not a young person. Can break the will to keep going on. It takes a Spartan mind/Spartan body to handle these Spartan bred dogs. Cheers.

[EWO]

Agreed.

Hydration is the absolute key. Muscle tie up is almost a certainty when the water level goes south.

Early on I wanted/needed to be in total control so I dictated fluid intake in every feeding and did not leave a fresh water source for the dog during non-working hours. From then on I made sure the dog had a fresh water bowl. I still added all the fluids during the feedings. Within a few weeks the water level hit the mark and the dog no longer uses the water bowl. As CYJ stated the dog can be dialed in by counting backwards the last 3-4-5 days and space the feedings out. A dog with healthy kidneys will piss himself correct.
That is most important when using dry food. It will soak a lot of water from the dog for digestion.

If a dog is fed raw or a lot of raw with a kibble mix just drop the raw and go straight dry for a few days. His water intake will double-triple and more.

Again, good topics wander.

I have often wondered if the fish is so nutrient dense it stays in the bloodstream and the muscle tissue retains the proteins and amino acids for longer thus the better recovery ability. I am guessing it magnifies with outside temperature. Still, not a science guy so I can't give anything more than an opinion.

The times I used the fish the dogs were wet and in really good shape. After a couple of days with plenty of water they were back. My best guess would be the outside temperature was too warm, and then time and fluids flushed it through.

Reading up on the sled dog guys that use kibble and fish it is always a really soupy/slop type mixture. Around here I can get the fluids right but can't force the temps down.

Again great topic. Wandering at times but good conversation.

EWO

[S_B]

Hey I enjoy reading both of you guys' experience, ideas and opinions!

"It takes a Spartan mind/body to handle these Spartan bred dogs."

And that is as good a saying as I ever heard about these dogs and their people! Cheers CYJ!!!

S_B

[EWO]

Me too. Once upon a time the dog had to be as game as their owner. These days the owner has to be as game as their dogs.

CYJ can really speak to the changing in times.

EWO

[Palooka]

i would say thats a fair assessment EWO

[rareblood]

Nice read.

[CLUTCH]

Great read.