The Lemm Keep

[barber]

With respect to everyones methods, of conditioning, I have used many, but my fastest results came using modified techniques, similar to Lemms. Hence the term modified for i have never owned a Lemm mill. Lemm does talk about hand walking a hound that isn't able to complete a certain work sessions, therefore the session time is complimented by hand walking. Game, root word of gambling, comes with many variables, unfortunately nothing is absolute or guaranteed, selection and assessment of the hound or hounds to be used is of the most importance. Maximum stress, is simply that, resistance, cardio, or other wise , the Lemm keep is very simple; hand walking, treadmill, jenny(he did speak of a jenny), 10 speed; good nutrition and rest are the most important components. If the hound isn't naturally strong your not going to improve his strength that much, the muscles may develop and look better, but that does not mean that he is that much stronger. Over working is always a grave mistake. Barber

[Mr_VIP]

With respect to everyones methods, of conditioning, I have used many, but my fastest results came using modified techniques, similar to Lemms. Hence the term modified for i have never owned a Lemm mill. Lemm does talk about hand walking a hound that isn't able to complete a certain work sessions, therefore the session time is complimented by hand walking. Game, root word of gambling, comes with many variables, unfortunately nothing is absolute or guaranteed, selection and assessment of the hound or hounds to be used is of the most importance. Maximum stress, is simply that, resistance, cardio, or other wise , the Lemm keep is very simple; hand walking, treadmill, jenny(he did speak of a jenny), 10 speed; good nutrition and rest are the most important components. If the hound isn't naturally strong your not going to improve his strength that much, the muscles may develop and look
better, but that does not mean that he is that much stronger. Over working is always a grave mistake. Barber

Knowing when and how to modify techniques is always very important.

[widerange]

I have never felt that the free spinning keep was a good way to go. It just doesn't add up. I have a treadmill but have found that I only use it when working the dog at a slow pase( with the breaks applied) and have the dog hold a hide in mouth to help him breathe in hold. I also seen fat bill found away to work extra resistance training into spring pole work but using a core to hang a chain in a close by tree so that the dog working the spring pole has the resistance of the hanging chain work against. I started using this on my dogs while using a spring pole and have seen a huge improvement the outcome from the time spent spring poling.

[FrostyPaws]

I believe if you're able to use one conditioning device, it would be a jenny over a mill. That being said, many keeps have the mill as the main part of their keep. So I don't necessarily agree that a jenny keep beats a mill one "no matter what". When I used the jenny, I never used a counterweight as the type of strength training I wanted to do was more intense than simply a counterweight.

While I agree with the jist of the posts, I'll only say there have been many Grand Champions and DOYs that were worked on mills. Could they have been in better shape? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, I don't anyone can discount a keep done on a mill by an individual that knows specifically how to get the most from his dog using that particular keep.

[Officially Retired]

I believe if you're able to use one conditioning device, it would be a jenny over a mill. That being said, many keeps have the mill as the main part of their keep.

Agreed. Twice.

So I don't necessarily agree that a jenny keep beats a mill one "no matter what".

Of course not.

The lamest jenny keep on the most haphazard jenny-contraption ... versus an optimal keep done on a truly good mill (like the Curios mill) ... is going to be much to the favor of the mill-trained dog.

However, best-to-best will always favor the jenny.

When I used the jenny, I never used a counterweight as the type of strength training I wanted to do was more intense than simply a counterweight.

I agree. The weightpull aspect of my keep is far more explosive, and exhausting, than a counter-weight on a jenny.

While I agree with the jist of the posts, I'll only say there have been many Grand Champions and DOYs that were worked on mills. Could they have been in better shape?

True.

But, their being Grand Champions had more to do with their talent than anything else ... not a mill.

And I would say that, if they weren't strength-trained to a degree, then yes, they could almost assuredly have come in better. Not to mention their competition was likely on a mill too.

Either way, I don't anyone can discount a keep done on a mill by an individual that knows specifically how to get the most from his dog using that particular keep.

Especially if he knows what a good dog is

That is why I have the mill keep; it can put a dog in really good shape; but not is its absolute best shape.

Jack

[barber]

The term free spinning is often misunderstood, Lemm used the term easy turning and it was mistaken for free spinning, now the novice are in a tread mill spinning contest all around world. I have known gentlemen to use thrift store bought emills with great results, when i walk a dog and plant my heels in the ground thts all the resistance he needs if he's a pulling dog; it's great to have a hard working dog that is motivation for the conditioner. Counter balances were used to offset the weight of the hound not for resistance.

[S_B]

I will agree with the jenny being one of the superior tools to condition a dog. And I will add that most, if not all Jenny's will need a "counterweight" of sorts to make a smooth balanced rotation. BUT, using aweights to drag for resistance on a jenny is silly, unless it is only used for what I already described.

I know a certain individual of whom was at one time quite successful, then after some time away for foolish life decisions. This person trained with a jenny and up to 11 window weights being used as a so called counterweight, or resistance drag. The dog was the most overworked, pathetic looking shell of a dog I have ever seen, including ANY greenhorns dog I've seen.

Also, like mentioned in this thread, the track is probably the most important part of the jenny. It is easy to injure your dog even if the track is perfect. I personally would never use sand, or dirt. You need those shoulders, and they are easy to throw out!

And probably most important of all, over any tool one chooses, is not to overwork your animal.

S_B

[S_B]

As far as Lemm's keep goes, I have used bits and pieces of it in the past. I think Lemm knew quite a lot about conditioning an animal. I don't think his methods deserve being discredited, afterall he was successful using his own method, which included the flying jenny BTW.

He also conditioned horses for his daughter and was successful at that to.

There are many keeps that have been developed by dogmen who have already done the footwork. Don Mayfield, Crenshaw, Lemm, Fat Bill, Ken Allen, Barney Fife, Cali Jack, Jack Kelly and many others. Some of these folks believe in a Slatmill, some hand walking. I think if one takes all of these methods into consideration, and applies the tools and methods that best suite them, you will have success to. Provided you have the most important ingredient, a BULLDOG!

[FrostyPaws]

Jack, I agree about the talent comment, and that goes for mill or jenny.

I personally don't think any person has ever put a dog in their absolute best shape. I think most of the conditioners are barely scratching the surface of what kind of shape a dog can really get into. I've had some dogs in better shape than others, but I don't think I've ever had a dog in it's absolute best shape.

[S_B]

Frosty, I agree with that statement.

First of all there is no way in the world any human or animal athlete is getting into its best physical shape in 8 weeks, that is ridiculous.

Trying to achieve "best physical shape" would have to be a process started from the beginning. Jack has stated before to feed optimaly, and even with that unless you are conditioning the animals body optimaly all of the time, you still would have a hard time finding that dogs "best physical shape".

There are just so many reasons one can not achieve this, one of the main obstacles other than time would be injury.