K. Allen's Dbl. Gr. Ch. Tornado (10xW) vs. Abraham's Gr. Ch. Queen of Hearts (8xW)

[North Strong]

No apologies and no worries man, we're all busy, totally get it. Thank you for your detailed reply.



Thanks for the info about the quote, they really are and I did.



Wow...can't thank you enough for sharing that story, really appreciate it. She never ceases to amaze, ol Tornado. The more I learn the more awed I am! Accords perfectly with what I heard about Andre's dogs: they will test you, win lose or draw! To me, gameness is more important than an undefeated record, and not just in pit dogs, talking boxing, thoroughbred racing, and so on. When I see "undefeated" I think things like "Who'd he beat?", "How'd he beat em?", and "How many times did he beat em?" Maybe we're just looking at the best of a bunch of stiffs, or maybe we're looking at a frontrunning cur that'll quit if he has to take what he's dishing out (maybe even close to what he's dishing out), or gets tired, or hot, or whatever. Doesn't mean they're not as great as the record indicates either, just that I like to see what's in the tank too. Obviously with Tornado we don't have to guess. I want guts and ability, sure! But ability without guts seems to me not the point of the whole thing. Nice to know Tornado was game as well as athletic and smart.



She sure was, and I can't imagine her being licked by any bitch her weight (or smaller) either. An opinion shared by many, I would imagine.



It is and there sure were and that pair are great as well, no doubt about it; in fact, the latter is why I posted this theoretical match in the first place.

Do you know anything about Ken Allen that you feel comfortable sharing? If not, totally cool. This guy had (or was associated with in some way, not crystal clear on the connections) 3 of my historically favorite dogs: Tornado obviously, Gr. Ch. Robert T, and his son Ch. Robert T Jr. I'd imagine most dogmen would probably give their eyeteeth to have just one hound like this in their whole lives! How in the world did this guy wind up with (or get associated with) THREE all-time great, masterful, longwinded, game, smart, ace head dogs (all of whom have classic wins over super opponents)? Was it just dumb luck? Was he really astute judging breedings? I'm aware the guy had $$$, so maybe he had a big yard and some good blood just nicked by sheer force of numbers? I dunno. I say this because when I hear "all time great dogmen" discussed, rarely do I see Ken's name in there, right or wrong. I just wish I knew more, but you may not know anything more. Wish I coulda been there!

Anyway, thanks again for the fantastic historical account, it was great.

Do you know anything about Ken Allen that you feel comfortable sharing? If not, totally cool.

I can tell you this... And it will sound like, " oh that's dumb, just about any dogman would say that..." But I don't have time as I need to get to bed soon. I will get back to you with indirect response to this reply later on.

I once asked him, "sir do you see yourself doing dogs for a long time or basically seen enough to think or feel, I've seen it, done it, all ?"
His reply at the time was, (as I would always do that) "Ken, Ken, Kenny that's my name (not sir,) " this was not long before he passed away (90s) His response was exactly this, may not be verbatim, but I'm getting the point across as best I can.
"I will have/do the dogs until the day I die..." Not much later, I was told he died, doing exactly what he loved.
So as it seems now the man was not only a good dogman but prophetic lol.
Talk soon.

[STA8541]

I once asked [Ken Allen], "sir do you see yourself doing dogs for a long time or basically seen enough to think or feel, I've seen it, done it, all ?" His reply at the time was, (as I would always do that) "Ken, Ken, Kenny that's my name (not sir,) " this was not long before he passed away (90s) His response was exactly this, may not be verbatim, but I'm getting the point across as best I can. "I will have/do the dogs until the day I die..."

Not much later, I was told he died, doing exactly what he loved. So as it seems now the man was not only a good dogman but prophetic lol.

That's fabulous, thanks so much for sharing! Definitely get back to me on anything you want to share, I miss the old-time dogmen mentality. Or just direct message me if you want and if it makes it easier.