Balkan Rules vs Cajun Rules

[Officially Retired]

I have a copy of the original rules, posted on my previous post.

You snuck that in, after the fact

Edit: I just highlighted it even more ...

[FrostyPaws]

You know what's even more interesting is the part right AFTER the green, highlighted area. Previously, it says a dog must mouth the other dog. It then says that when the dogs touch, you must release your dog. So many people think that when you release your dog, the scratch has been completed.

Take into account that you have to have a really good referee for this aspect. Lets say that you specify dogs must take holds. Dogs come together at say the 5 second mark, but the scratching dog hasn't taken hold. The referee MUST continue counting until the scratching dog takes hold. It doesn't matter if the dog being held takes hold or not as the onus is on the scratching dog to take hold to complete his scratch.

People really need to familiarize themselves with the rules. The out of hold count rule is one that confuses people also as most don't know it like they should.

[Officially Retired]

Agreed.

I remember even Jack Kelly got it wrong. In a story he told, the scratching dog started licking the opponent ... and Kelly called it a "completed scratch." Kelly's reasoning was that "the tongue is part of the mouth, so the scratching dog mouthed the opponent."

This is where basic horse sense comes into play, or (as in contract law) "The Letter of The Law" versus "The Spirit of the Law."

Kelly was right as to "the letter" of the Cajun Rules, the tongue is part of the mouth. However, he was completely wrong as to the spirit of the Cajun Rules, as "mouthing" clearly means *biting* ... or intent to keep fighting ... and licking is a far cry from that

Jack

[R2L]

If you read an original copy of the Cajun Rules, Ted has it right. The dog must begin immediately. If the dog stops at any particular point in running the scratch, he loses. The original rules do not allow for the dog to stand for 5 seconds then go. It does not allow for the dog to go immediately and stop halfway for 3 seconds.

Go immediately and continue trying or lose.


Rule 11: Now when one of the dogs turns his head and shoulders away from his opponent after the fight is on it is a turn, whether they are in holds or free, and the handler must claim the turn and the referee must allow the claim if he believes it is a turn or the referee must call the first fair turn he sees whether the handler claims it or not and when the referee calls a turn he shall say, "Handle your dogs", and each handler must pick up his dog as soon as he can without breaking a hold. Handlers carry their dogs to their respective corners, immediately on picking them up, keeping the dogs face turned away from the center of the pit. 25 seconds after the dogs are carried to their corners the referee shall say, "Face your dogs". Then the handlers must show their dog's head and shoulders between their legs, facing the center of the pit. The dog that turned first must scratch first. 25 seconds after the dogs are carried to their corners. In five seconds more the referee shall say; "Let go", then the dog that made the first turn must be turned loose by his handler and this dog must go across and mouth the other dog. If, when he is turned loose, he refuses to start at once, or if he stops on the way over, or if he fails to reach his opponent, the referee must declare his opponent the winner. A handler is allowed to release his dog at anytime he sees fit after the dog whose turn it is to cross has started over. He must turn him loose when the dogs touch each other. He is not compelled to until then

as far as i know this rule has now been changed and is just must mouth the opponent within 10 seconds of releasing it. well, here...

[FrostyPaws]

I don't think the rule has ever been changed here, persay. It's the simple fact that most people have never actually read the rules more than once, and they certainly don't understand a lot of it. Alot of the rules are passed down from person to person, word-of-mouth. I know it was to me until I tracked down an actual copy of the rules. It's just an interesting aspect that most people never realize is even in the rules.

[Officially Retired]

as far as i know this rule has now been changed and is just must mouth the opponent within 10 seconds of releasing it. well, here...

Again, there is no official "change," but individuals always amend it as they (mis)interpret them. The only reason to "change the rules" in any individual contest is to watch the dog that hesitated fight a little bit longer ...

The entire idea is to stop the contest the moment when one dog gives an inkling of wanting to stop. Hell, even if you amend the rules, how many people want to keep a dog that took a 5-count? Not many.

Therefore, why not rule the contest over at the count of 1, like the original rules suggest? The fact of the matter is this: any # after 1 becomes arbitrary. Why not 12 seconds? Why not 60 seconds? Why not 3:40? Why not give the dog a day-and-a-half to heal, regroup, and consider his alternatives?

The creators of the Cajun Rules valued gameness most, and the lives of the dogs most, which is why the dog is required to go at once ... and not hesitate at any point after moving forward. The 3 unimpeachable advantages of this strict adherence is 1) it renders the most exacting of standards, 2) it results in the quickest of contests, and 3) it results in the greatest likelihood of saving the gamer dog.

Jack

[R2L]

I agree Jack. Good that you guys brought this up, i had no clue this was in the original rules. It was not in the last set i read.

I think its smart to make this kind of things clear with the 2 parties and the referee when making the contract.

[SteelyDan]

I'd be interested to hear the reasoning behind the balkans 3 second out of holds rule.... Why they think this is better than Cajun rules.

[Nut]

From what i understood there was to much argues about not handling and or mishandles. And probably not enough correct judges to deal with that.

Why they think its better now is probably because its all they know, and it's so easy. Doesn't require any skill or experience

[Bulldogstalker]

If you go by original to the tee. Look how many ppl should be culling there dogs. I see ppl keep dogs that should nvr be kept from there understanding. When teaching ours we go by original an cull to that process. But bet your ass in a match sum1 gonna want a rule changed to a degree.