Raw Feeding Fact or Myth?

[OGDOGG]

It's easy to say all that when you don't have kids around. Getting rid of a dog like that in the first place is to prevent future mishaps. One of the main reason GreenEyes is out of here was because he snatched a piece of meat from one of the kids and at the same time got a piece of her shirt. Now that you mentioned the Gorilla growling at you, GreenEyes does the same thing. He growls exactly like his mom. You could also make a case and say why didn't I put him somewhere else while there was a BBQ in the back? If I put him in a crate inside, he'll destroy it like those other 7 crates he went through, put him in a kennel inside? He will only bark until he comes back out on his chain spot. So it's a lose lose situation. That dog has no respect for anybody.
At scary: you're right, some are like that(GreenEyes) and some are smart enough to know what their owners expect of them. That's the reason why I get rid of the ones I can't control and keep the ones that meet my expectations. Some people are so stupid that they think all dogs will revert back to their animal instinct, when all they have to do is teach them with a piece of treat.

[Officially Retired]

It's easy to say all that when you don't have kids around. Getting rid of a dog like that in the first place is to prevent future mishaps. One of the main reason GreenEyes is out of here was because he snatched a piece of meat from one of the kids and at the same time got a piece of her shirt.

I would not have a dog like that around kids.

As I already mentioned on this post (and mentioned on my Feeding Raw DVD), I would never feed meat to a dog with kids around.

It is my firm belief that behind every "dog bite" incident to a child is the irresponsible dog management of an adult.

Now that you mentioned the Gorilla growling at you, GreenEyes does the same thing. He growls exactly like his mom.

The Gorilla never growled at me, under any circumstance, except when I tried to take a raw animal from him.

Brick House never growled at me one time in her life. She only growled at strangers, and even then only a select few strangers.

Brick House is in fact with a woman now, and is living a nice life, and (again) never growled at either this woman, her boyfriend,, or (now) her mother. Brick House is an extremely smart animal, with a big ego yet a loving heart. If she loved you, she would defend you fiercely. If she didn't trust you, she would let you know. She was one of those dogs who knew who her friends are (and aren't), so if she continued to growl at you, I would imagine it was only because she didn't like the treatment or vibe she was receiving from you.

You could also make a case and say why didn't I put him somewhere else while there was a BBQ in the back? If I put him in a crate inside, he'll destroy it like those other 7 crates he went through, put him in a kennel inside? He will only bark until he comes back out on his chain spot. So it's a lose lose situation. That dog has no respect for anybody.

I would indeed make the case that I wouldn't keep a dog like that around kids. However, if he was also a crate-eater, then that makes confining him problematic. In that case, I would either keep him in an above-ground pen, or (if I didn't have the space for one), then I would have done the same thing you did and gotten rid of him to someone else. Some gamedogs are not meant for children, or being domesticated; they are meant to be out in the country and used for one thing only. But those are not my favorite kinds of dog either.

At scary: you're right, some are like that(GreenEyes) and some are smart enough to know what their owners expect of them. That's the reason why I get rid of the ones I can't control and keep the ones that meet my expectations. Some people are so stupid that they think all dogs will revert back to their animal instinct, when all they have to do is teach them with a piece of treat.

Just because you "can't control" a dog doesn't make that dog "stupid"; oftentimes, especially with bulldogs, it can mean the dog simply is not tractable. There is a big difference between tractability and intelligence, which you clearly don't understand, so I will try to explain it.

To illustrate the difference I am talking about, collies are typically known to be "tractable" while coondogs typically are not. Collies have to obey hand signals and be very responsive to their owner's directions, and consequently they need to rely on man to do their best jobs. Coon dogs, on the other hand, have to "think on their own" and get out there and find something, with little or no help from man, but have to rely on their instincts.

Because of the differing selection standards used to create these different breed types, many people mistakenly believe that collies are "smart" because they're so obedient (tractable), and that coondogs are "stupid" because they tend not to be obedient and make poor pets. This myth (and the distinction between "tractability" and intelligence) was shattered when researchers put several collies, and several coondogs, through a series of mazes and trouble-shooting tests ... and almost all the collies failed to get out of their mazes and navigate the tests ... relying only on their own instincts/judgment ... while virtually every coondog navigated the challenges with ease.

What does this mean? It means collies needed help while coondogs could think for themselves.
So which breed tends to be more intelligent? Depends on if you want a dog to "follow instructions" or think for itself.

Back to bulldogs. Not every bulldog is tractable. Many have exceptional drive, and huge egos, and dogs like this are going to do what they damned well please, and there is just nothing "you" can do about it. In fact, this utter stubbornness is often associated with some of the best dogs I myself have ever owned.

Do these dogs make good pets? No.

Does this make them "stupid"? No. It means they're not tractable (obedient). Many dogs like this have all the intelligence they need to get out of crates, windows, cages, etc., and then go do what they damned well please. In fact oftentimes these dogs prove smarter than their owners ... but I do agree that such dogs are NOT enjoyable dogs to have around in a family setting, and I wouldn't want one for that capacity either.

But out in a wide-open country setting, dogs like that will amuse themselves all day running around and working their chain.

Jack

[evolutionkennels]

Machobear is a complete asshole.. if you put him in a crate, he'll bark until you Let him out, if he's outside, he'll bark until you work him, he is absolutely never aggressive to anyone in my house, however, he does give too much attention to a stroller, I'm not sure he knows the differnce., that being said, he will always be either outside in a 10 x 10 kennel, or in a wire cage in the garage.

[OGDOGG]

Brick house growled at me once..and that was when I picked her up from you. Other than that she continued to growl at children and my friends that came over. I've never treated her bad not once. She was the only dog I was worried enough to take to the vet several times. That proved a lot as much as I hate going there. After I brought her back to you, several days later, you thanked me for taking good care of her.
As for the collie/coondog subject, thanks for explaining the difference between tractability and intelligence. But all I am asking for is the dogs to know-stay, come, and be quiet. That's all! If he's not smart enough to do that then I say he is not intelligent enough to learn those commands, or he don't give a shit.

[skipper]

Well, the dog was too good to get rid of, and the solution to the problem was easy: leave him alone when he's eating.

Under all other circumstances, Stormy was a stable, affectionate dog.

If I had a dog that would attack/growl at me "in general," or who was unstable, sure I would kill a dog like that too.

But to kill a normally-stable, absolute ace-caliber pit dog over his basic instincts in protecting his bone, would be overly-emotional stupidity on my part ... when all I had to do is let him enjoy his bone and not fuck with him.

Because, when speaking of respect, you also have to respect your dogs (especially the badass ones with enormous ego and drive), and you need to leave them in peace when they're eating. That is also part of what it means to "understand dogs"

Jack

I get what you mean. And I have had dogs like that myself. Probably not to the quality of Stormbringer. But good dogs that ego you are talking about. What differs my situation from yours is that i have very limited space. And i have relatives that takes care of the dogs when im away. I live by myself and i need someone to feed the dogs when im on trips. Had a male dog that would kill you if you didn't stepped away the second you would put that bowl of raw down to him. I bred him, brought him up and I knew it in my heart this was the pick of the litter. He had it all, great mouth, super strong, agile, with extreme finish. I loved that dog. when he became like a year that feeding shit started, i didn't care much about it, him being my precious one and all. When he turned 2 those food aggression started to become house aggression kennel aggression and so on. I gave him hell and it was good for a couple of weeks, then it all came back. By this time he started to become unstable around my girlfriend not only when fed. In the end I had to put him down because my family wasn't safe. And I could never leave the yard because of that dog. Now I' not comparing him to your dog since he was stable all other times. Thing is that this dog had terrified people I care for and by now they wont feed any dogs that growls because they are afraid they will get attacked. I can tell when i know its only food aggression, they can't. And this is why I will only feed dogs that are 100% stable at all times. For the peace and mind of my family and the ones that makes it possible for me to have this hobbby. I shoulld've wrote all this in my previous statement ofcourse.

[scary]

At the end of the day it comes down to the individual situation of the hound and owner. As far as saying you could teach dogs to not revert back to ALL there basic instinct would be incorrect. Because at some point they ALL will revert back to at least one basic animal instinct. Rather it be the fight or flight instinct or the instinct or when you have a bitch on the yard that's in heat all the stud can think to do is do what is hard wired in him witch is to breed the bitch. But what I am getting at is at some point rather it be from the stress of the situation or witch causes the fight or flight or if its the situation with a dog just being a dog and try's to make his way over to breed the bitch. Just to name a few. He is still reverting back to his basic animal instinct when making those decisions. So to say that you can teach a dog to stop reverting back to his animals instincts would be stupid. Maybe you could say that you could teach him to not revert back to ONE basic instinct. But not all of them.With the raw food issue. There are the select few out of the general population of dogs that can be taught not to growl or not knot up with the bitch unless the command is giving. Some instincts are easier to brake then others. But they are far and few between when dealing with dog of this performance. But it all comes down to is that individual dog in question WORTH keeping around and do you have the proper setting to keep it.

[EWO]

This is a pretty good topic. I personally have never seen any of these food possessiveness characteristics in any of my dogs. I have fed dry and raw and whole prey over the years and have never seen the difference with aggression or the desire to possess or the growling or biting. Even the high strung, high caliber dogs that were full of themselves. I have always touched and rubbed the dogs while they ate as pups and young dogs. Maybe this was a bit overkill on my part and it may or may not have factored in to me not seeing this type of aggression. I have been lucky over the years to only have one incident where one tried to lay mouth on me. I ignored the first sign. (my fault). The next sign I schooled him with a feed scoop. The next day he met me at the end of the chain with ill intent to say the least. I fed him a vitamin and he has never even acted like he wanted to bite anyone again. Good topic. EWO

[Albino Rhino]

But all I am asking for is the dogs to know-stay, come, and be quiet. That's all! If he's not smart enough to do that then I say he is not intelligent enough to learn those commands, or he don't give a shit.

All your dogs know and obey those commands? How many you feed? The only command mine know is "shut up" and that's because I'm shaking the ol red Ryder BB gun! Lol

[OGDOGG]

Yes they know those 3 commands. The first command I use on them is "stay". What they'll do is stay in their house until I clean up their area. Once it's all clean I tell them to "come". Now they could be all excited all they want. I have a small yard and all the dogs on my yard are either bred by me or I got them since they were very young. So they know what I expect of them.

[Limey Kennels]

Guys a High protien ore protien based diet THUSE make a dog agressif!!. its a known fact, in the greyhound racing world!!. there is one thing they can NOT use in that scene and that is greyhounds fighting umongst them(hensh they race with muzles on and they carry pitbull blood in them), insted of going afther the lure!!. as soon as greyhounds start fighting there careers can come to a end.. another side afect from a high protien diet is protien posion witch also reveals itself in hair los and bold sports . the so called food alergies (witch they are not) it mearly a lack of amino acids in a to high protien diet.... now the hair los and bold spots are more comon umongst dry food kibble, and lesser in raw feeding as raw meat thuse cary more amino acids to it , BUT there is a BUT to that as wel..