Can you ruin gameness? (genetics)

[Nextlevel]

That's okay, disagreements in ideology are what create interesting discussions





Boy, we sure do disagree here. Potential can't be physically touched? So, if you have an IQ of 160, and great mathematical aptitude, you're saying I "can't touch this"??? What about with blunt trauma force to the head? That would be a pretty heavy "touch" that would ruin your intellectual potential ...





You are confusing several things. First of all, genetically being pre-disposed to "being Buck" is a whole different ballgame than having his genetic potential ruined. I agree with the fact that, genetically, Buck = Buck, and nothing will change this. But the issue we're talking about goes much deeper than that

Furthermore, there is a difference between Buck simply "not realizing" his genetic potential and someone ruining it. For example, if STP decided not to match Buck, the dog would have therefore "not realized" his potential, but that potential would still be intact. However, if STP decided to 4-dog Buck every weekend ... over and over again ... breaking his teeth off ... breaking his bones ... and (ultimately) breaking Buck's spirit in the process ... then STP would have actually ruined Buck's genetic potential. In other words, Buck would still be Buck ... genetically ... however, potential-wise, physically/mentally Buck be incapable of achieving his potential for greatness anymore.





Again, we totally disagree. Michael Jordan not only had genetic potential, he fully realized it. His older birthdays marked the passing of his window. Had Michale Jordan got shot, or crippled, then YES his genetic potential would have been ruined. That doesn't mean his "genetics" would be altered; it means his POTENTIAL to achieve greatness would have been permanently destroyed. Not realizing potential, and destroying potential, are two different animals ... totally separate from original genetic code.

Jack

love reading EWO and Jack disputes, I tend to side with both of them great posts guys. Don't kill me but potential and reality is two different things. Example between 300BC-300AD Egyptians built pyramids were their genetic makeup different from you or I. The answer is no but they reached their full potential of craftsmanship, can any archaeologist of today explain how they achieved such great craftsmanship with the resources that were available. No, there are hundreds of hypothesis on how ( reason being they didn't have to because their minds are not program to think like they did) but could have they if put into that position maybe. My point is Gr Ch buck genetically is no different from Poncho what makes him different is his DNA. Buck DNA will always be the same but his potential would have been shattered if put into incompetent hands. The reality of the old warrior is that he reached his full abilities because he was nurtured to do so.

[n.d.k]

That makes a lot of sense to me

[n.d.k]

Well put

[CRISIS]

Tyson was and could have stayed the greatest with cuts, but became a bum with don king and his staff...

[waccamaw]

Any game dog can turn into a cur under the right citation.there has been many that has hunted for 2 or 3 hrs and showed deep gameness ,but their next hunt stop in 30 min on a lesser hunt.

[evolutionkennels]

Gotta agree with Waccamaw

[EWO]

Well said. Great analogy. EWO

Tyson was and could have stayed the greatest with cuts, but became a bum with don king and his staff...

[EWO]

No doubts here. EWO

Any game dog can turn into a cur under the right citation.there has been many that has hunted for 2 or 3 hrs and showed deep gameness ,but their next hunt stop in 30 min on a lesser hunt.

[FrostyPaws]

I don't agree with Waccamaw. Many a dog has done the exact thing he said and didn't cur out the next time. Maybe they took their death the next time. Sometimes, that particular dog is used up, went to the well one too many times, whatever phrase people want to use. That's usually the case, and it's usually poor dog management by the owner in not seeing what was going on there.

Case in point was a dog named Ch. Lil Dick, off Ch.Butkus/Chavis Sexy. He'd won 4 or 5 shows, and at the end of his career, he was set to go for another. Having seen the dog on different occassions, and it not even being MY dog, before his last show, you could LOOK at the dog and tell he'd given all he had to give. He was on point, looked in shape, but the way the dog carried himself just screamed, "Sigh. I'm tired of this shit." His owners never saw it. Most people didn't see it. I told my friend what I saw, he came over, looked at the dog and agreed. He quit later on that night. Does that make him a cur? I guess by most definitions, yes. To me, he was just a used up dog, past his prime, and should've been put up for what he was, a 5xw that had went to the well (or whatever) and was done.

[EWO]

I agree with Frosty as well. I do not know of the Lil Dick dog but would have to think there are lots out there like him and owners as well. One of the theories is the gas tank, they all get one, and some have better gas mileage than others. Some are sent to the well one too many times. Lil Dick was born to be CH. Lil Dick and for a time he was everything Ch. lil Dick was suppose to be, but in the end he was asked for more than he could deliver. If I had seen Lil Dick go, knew several of his littermates, parents, aunts and uncles go as well, and happy with what I saw, I would be the guy that bred to the "cur" Lil Dick.
There are so many variables in these dogs coupled with so many opinions on what defines a good dog that it is nearly impossible to all agree on any certain aspect within the dogs. I saw a dog go for his CH several years ago. He won. At the end it was not impressive to me at all. I was not a fan of the newly crowned CH. Then they told me he was 7, had been sold to them as a 2XW, no teeth, performance career over with, stud dog. They 'had' to check him out at 6 and they liked him enough to think 'CH' added to his value. To see what he did at 7, knowing the details, I was impressed with him as a dog, but his skills were eroded. At 8 he quit to a much younger dog. Poor decisions led to his demise. What he was never changed, but he was not allowed to become an old stud dog like he should have. EWO