DISPUTED OR FAKE PEDS FROM THE PAST AND PRESENT .

[projectx]

I no longer know if John Cotton and Bill Cotton were brothers are of any kin. John Cotton was a ex FBI agent that lived in Tenn. and had some Corvino dogs. He was friends with Mayfield and Mr. Bush. Bill Cotton lived in N.C. and was the owner of the famed Cotton's Bullet dog. I never got to meet Bill Cotton but V. Jackson did at the Hank's dog's first match.

Is some interesting discussion on the Eli/ Tombstone etc. I thought Randy Fox was a member on here. Would like his thoughts on the Speedy Alan's Gina bitch. Maloney had a full sister to Tombstone named Bonnie that was bred to the Fox's Alvin dog and some others. Was some good dogs off her.

There is a lot of OFRN breeding along with Tudor/Corvino/Armitage/Williams/ Colby dogs in Gina's pedigree. If she was a red nose Gyp and since Toot was a red nose dog as well. Tombstone would show that red nose influence.

I had back in my time era thought of Don Maloney just a Dog matcher and Dog conditioner. Other than Toot and Colorado. A lot of his other pedigrees showed more DeCordova/Hemphill and other bred dogs in his area. I will have to pull up his pedigrees and take another look.

Kennedy/Deffenbach/Uselton/Trussell/etc. did more to keep those last breeding's of Tudor going. When the Glover - Stinson Sampson dog was lost after his last match with Hooten's Butcher Boy. Was a great loss to that Tudor family line of dogs. Jim Usleton was wanting to save Sampson so badly. A misunderstanding got him accidentally shot in one leg by a shot gun.

It is sad that men like E. Crenshaw, did not man up back then when they saw breeding's that were shown incorrect. Called UKC and ADBA to get the pedigrees corrected.

Was to late for Mr. E. Crenshaw to have let himself be taped in a interview. Claiming the errors of M. Carver breeding's after he had died. Mr. Crenshaw should have been addressing that matter to Ralph Greenwood when the paper changing was going down. At least with the dogs he and Carver were breeding.

If we could really see how many of the dogs of the 60's, 70's, 80's were really bred. Would be quite a eye opener. Howard Heinzl was the only dog man that no one spoke bad of. Was considered to have been very honest with his breeding's and papers. Cheers

Nice post cyj, tudors baby was the female of earls that was on maloneys yard and was the likely dam to tombstone, and im sure if you read my post about the audio tape which i actually have and on it there is the convo with maloney and a man who called mayfield some years later and told don about how the gina bitch was up in another state when
she was suposed to be on maloenys yard whelping tomstones litter .
I think that jack is correct in saying that you should never completely belive everything about thoses times, regadless of
who tells you, but im more than happy to take mayfields word about tombstone/ ELI and blind billy not being bred as they show.
I do that not becasue i want to believe it just becasue mayfield says it, i think if you read my post about these dogs , i have used as msuch evidence,such as it is , including floyds own words , and the circumstanstail evidence of various factors like the audio conovs about tombstone, the timeline for blind billy and dibo which if true would more than likely prove that ELI was infact out of the crybaby litter as was thought at the time,and as such would mean that mayfield should at least get some recognition for that litter and the subsequent breeding that floyd most probably made with eli and the other litter mates .
In those audios mayfield had it showed the foresight to keep a record of his converstions ,from them we have found out many things about the breedings not just from amyfields mouth but from the mouths of the men he talked to in those audio tapes, which are the
most important information source we have today , and i only wish i had more of them , but from just those few it proved
a lot of what mayfield had said over these years was true.

As for ed crenshaws audio interview, well i think he in many ways had the tell on carver , he knew more about carvers breedings than most other folks around , and im not sure we should condem him about not telling what he knew about possible mixed up peds like the ones mentioned , as i think the dogmen back then and especially from ed crenshaws generation were far more low key and kept things to themselves much more than today , with the internet and instant access to information etc , but i agree with you it would be great if they all came out and said something , The trouble is back then how did you prove it, there was no dna like today , and when mayfield did say something ,which now looks like it was true, he gets shot down as jealous and crazy , so its not like the fraterntiy welcomes this type of news
with open arms , because if one mans lying then another is telling the truth , and the folks who stand behind the man caught lying never seem to be able to face upto it , its like they feel like thev'e been made to look a fool by sticking up for the liar , so rahter than look like fools they just call the other man a lair and hope it goes away , but the thing is that the truth ,or at least the truth as best as we can get it, comes out in the end ,just like blind billy ELI and tombstone , to name a few.

[Officially Retired]

Very interesting, CYJ, thanks.

Did you know Deffenbach? I heard he lost with a Champion to the great Robert T dog. Did you happen to see that match?

Jack

[CYJ]

Did not meet Deffenbach. Did briefly meet Maloney/ Maurice Carver/ and saw some of the other famous dog men at that dog show in Texas. Was when Don Mayfield put on a great dog show and his Easy bitch was matched into Stinson and Glover's Ruby bitch.

After that show when Easy lost to Ruby. Myself and V. Jackson went back to Don's Home and dog yard. With some other dog men do not remember all the names of this small group. Kreshner might have been one of the dog men. I was good at remembering faces but bad on names.

That was the day I started slowly parting ways with Don. Until then I along with Vernon were big Mayfield fans. Don had set up those matches with very strict washing rules. Even using the 100% percent alcohol, fresh sleeveless coveralls and sewed pockets. One sponge and water bucket. Dogs had to enter the show ring through a wire enclosure.

Nothing was handed into the show ring with Corner men on all sides. Some of these matches were going for good money and all means of cheating would be hard to pull off. Not to mention many season dog men were there. Nothing wrong with doing it this way and probably the best way today.

Later as we sat there in the dog yard, talking back and forth. I could see Don was not in the best of moods and kept looking far off in the distance in deep thought. After awhile he finally turned around to us and said his Bitch Easy had been rubbed. That hit me like a ton of bricks and later on in the trip back home.

I told V. Jackson he could continue with the older dogs we had started with, that I felt it was time for me to try something different.
I later got the McNeil Chuck dog, the 2x Lopossay Buster Pearl bitch from Shropshire and the Face bitch from Chandler. The Face bitch had some older Mayfield dogs through the Wille dog from Dwight Hathaway. The rest was mostly Bully Son/Art's Missy through the Middleton Black Betty bitch. Got one good breeding off the Zetterquest brother's Crazy dog.

One other thing that ended any future dealings with Mayfield, not that he ever did anything unfairly at the time we bought the two Coplin bitches from him. We later bred both bitches back to Sunshine and Tina to the Snake dog. Far as I knew, all had went well and Vernon had sent him the pups. Out of the deal Vernon not me had made with him. I had given my part of the pups to Vernon.

Sent the only male I had off Snake x Tina to Mr. Orbie Coplin for the two young stud dogs he had shipped to me. Was the last out cross stud dog Mr. Coplin owned. Named him Carolina Kid and kept him in the house. He and wife liked Carolina Kid a lot.

Later when the Jocko dogs etc. got popular off the Hank dog. Don ups and writes a real bummer of a article on the Hank dog. Vernon had bought the Hank dog as a pup out of Don's puppy pen. Their was some Sibling pups to the Hank dog. Some claim the Panama Red dog to be a sibling brother to Hank. Don gave Jackson the puppy ABDA registering certificate on Hank. Hank was ADBA registered dog.

After I read the article I called Don, asked him why he wrote such a article. When the Hank dog's reputation had not hurt the Mayfield name but enhanced it. He started telling me Vernon had not sent him the correct number of pups. I told him I knew nothing of any of this. Contacted Jackson to see what was up. Seems Vernon was short two pups since he had lost some of his from parvo or maybe a kennel accident. No longer remember all the details

I called Don back and told him I would send him a nice looking brindle female 4-5 month old pup off The Snake x Tina breeding. This was the second time I had ever shipped a dog by airways and did not know the stress a young pup could go through. The pup shipped to Mr. Coplin had went well. When Don picked the pup up it was badly dehydrated and had lost a lot of weight. He was not happy about that.

A year or so later I sent a fine little bitch off His Sunshine dog x Jackson's Pokey. To breed to Sunshine or Snake. He instead kept my bitch, renamed her Mayfield's Tish and bred her to Pusher. Was never able to get any inbreeding off his stud dogs. The last dog Vernon got from Don before their relationship fell apart was the Banjo dog.

Don was one of the best dog men in his prime and his conditioning thoughts and methods changed the way most dogs are worked today. Jackson used a lot of his method and I felt even improved on it. I am glad to have known Don briefly and never had any hard feelings. He was a Pro and I was a rookie.

Over time even Mr. Skinner told me that no matter how Maurice Carver was breeding his dogs. He was going to be the pit dog breeder to have the greatest impact on the dogs of today. Like Colby and Tudor did in their day. Don near the end may have felt he had not gotten the credit he should have. We will never know. Cheers

[projectx]

Did not meet Deffenbach. Did briefly meet Maloney/ Maurice Carver/ and saw some of the other famous dog men at that dog show in Texas. When Don Mayfield was matched into Stinson and Glover.

After that show when Easy lost to Ruby. Myself and V. Jackson went back to Don's Home and dog yard. With some other dog men do not remember all the names of this small group. Kreshner might have been one of the dog men. I was good at remembering faces but bad on names.

That was the day I started slowly parting ways with Don. Until then I along with Vernon were big Mayfield fans. Don had set up those matches with very strict washing rules. Even using the 100% percent alcohol, fresh sleeveless coveralls and sewed pockets. One sponge and water bucket. Dogs had to enter the show ring through a wire enclosure.

Nothing was handed into the show ring with Corner men on all sides. Some of these matches were going for good money and all means of cheating would be hard to pull off. Not to mention many season dog men were there. Nothing wrong with doing it this way and probably the best way today.

Later as we sat there in the dog yard, talking back and forth. I could see Don was not in the best of moods and kept looking far off in the distance in deep thought. After awhile he finally turned around to us and said his Bitch Easy had been rubbed. That hit me like a ton of bricks and later on in the trip back home.

I told V. Jackson he could continue with the older dogs we had started with, that I felt it was time for me to try something different.
I later got the McNeil Chuck dog, the 2x Lopossay Buster Pearl bitch from Shropshire and the Face bitch from Chandler. The Face bitch had some older Mayfield dogs through the Wille dog from Dwight Hathaway. The rest was mostly Bully Son/Art's Missy through the Middleton Black Betty dog. Got one good breeding off the Zetterquest brother's Crazy dog.

One other thing that ended any future dealings with Mayfield, not that he ever did anything unfairly at the time we bought the two Coplin bitches from him. We later bred both bitches back to Sunshine and Tina to the Snake dog. Far as I knew, all had went well and Vernon had sent him the pups. Out of the deal Vernon not me had made with him. I had given my part of the pups to Vernon.

Sent the only male I had off Snake x Tina to Mr. Orbie Coplin for the two young stud dogs he had shipped to me. Was the last out cross stud dog Mr. Coplin owned. Named him Carolina Kid and kept him in the house. He and wife liked Carolina Kid a lot.

Later when the Jocko dogs etc. got popular off the Hank dog. Don ups and writes a real bummer of a article on the Hank dog. Vernon had bought the Hank dog as a pup out of Don's puppy pen. Their was some Sibling pups to the Hank dog. Some claim the Panama Red dog to be a sibling brother to Hank. Don gave Jackson the puppy ABDA registering certificate on Hank. Hank was ADBA registered dog.

After I read the article I called Don, asked him why he wrote such a article. When the Hank dog's reputation had not hurt the Mayfield name but enhanced it. He started telling me Vernon had not sent him the correct number of pups. I told him I knew nothing of any of this. Contacted Jackson to see what was up. Seems Vernon was short two pups since he had lost some of his from parvo or maybe a kennel accident. No longer remember all the details

I called Don back and told him I would send him a nice looking brindle female 4-5 month old pup off The Snake x Tina breeding. This was the second time I had ever shipped a dog by airways and did not know the stress a young pup could go through. The pup shipped to Mr. Coplin had went well. When Don picked the pup up it was badly dehydrated and had lost a lot of weight. He was not happy about that.

A year or so later I sent a fine little bitch off His Sunshine dog x Jackson's Pokey. To breed to Sunshine or Snake. He instead kept my bitch, renamed her Mayfield's Tish and bred her to Pusher. Was never able to get any inbreeding off his stud dogs. The last dog Vernon got from Don before their relationship fell apart was the Banjo dog.

Don was one of the best dog men in his prime and his conditioning thoughts and methods changed the way most dogs are worked today. Jackson used a lot of his method and I felt even improved on it. I am glad to have known Don briefly and never had any hard feelings. He was a Pro and I was a rookie.

Over time even Mr. Skinner told me that no matter how Maurice Carver was breeding his dogs. He was going the be the pit dog breeder to have the greatest impact on the dogs of today. Like Colby and Tudor did in their day. Don near the end may have felt he had not gotten the credit he should have. We will never know. Cheers

Nice post again cyj , but having looked at the info about blind billy /ELI in this thread what is your opinion about those breedings , and doesnt it look like don was correct in those and probably many other breedings of the day , i would like to know what you think , as i think maybe the fact that he made the breeding that produced eli may go some way to give him a litte more credit than he seems to have had as a breeder to the many who are uniformed on the matter.

[CYJ]

Projectx it is very hard to put 100% confidence in what any of those dog men like Mayfield/ Tudor/Boudreaux/Carver/Patrick and others said. It is like allowing yourself to become the outsider that gets caught up in their little family squabble. I too felt like you do in my younger years and was a crusader for the Truth of the pedigrees etc. Was not long before I found myself beating on a dead horse. One minute these same dog men were talking crap about each other, then later on being the best of pals. Even having group pictures took. Sitting there picking and a grinning at some pig picking.

Who would believe all that Earl Tudor had to say when much he did. Showed him to have some serious character flaws. In the Burton interview it was mentioned that Burton's wife could tell Mrs. Tudor was much afraid of ole Earl. If it be true, what sort of man lets a dog man pimp, bring over a young prostitute and have sex with her in the barn. While his wife of many years is in the House near by. How honest do you think Tudor and Carver are going to be about all their dog dealings when doing something as common as that?

Or brag about taking a squaw Indian women anytime you please. Or keeping other dog men's brood bitches after they paid stud fees and had shipped the bitch dogs to him. Then when Tudor feels some one has wronged him. He goes up on his mountain and starts caterwauling, according to what Mayfield wrote. If all those said statements are True. I and the many readers were not there so really all could be a lot of hear say. No doubt Tudor was a top dog man in his day and had a great influence on the dog game. But to take all Tudor said as the gospel from Don's taped interviews and any of those other taped interviews. Is a little more salt than I would want to take on my food.

Your best contribution to this matter and to the others that have the rest of those tapes. Is to put them down on a CD and sell them for a fair price. Or have the interviews posted on this site, like Dead End does on the on lines pedigree site. Then everyone can make up their own minds. Still, getting those older pedigrees changed will be a moot point far as those registries are concerned. Cheers

[projectx]

Projectx it is very hard to put 100% confidence in what any of those dog men like Mayfield/ Tudor/Boudreaux/Carver/Patrick and others said. It is like allowing yourself to become the outsider that gets caught up in their little family squabble. I too felt like you do in my younger years and was a crusader for the Truth of the pedigrees etc. Was not long before I found myself beating on a dead horse. One minute these same dog men were talking crap about each other, then later on being the best of pals. Even having group pictures took. Sitting there picking and a grinning at some pig picking.

Who would believe all that Earl Tudor had to say when much he did. Showed him to have some serious character flaws. In the Burton interview it was mentioned that Burton's wife could tell Mrs. Tudor was much afraid of ole Earl. If it be true, what sort of man lets a dog man pimp, bring over a young prostitute and have sex with her in the barn. While his wife of many years is in the House near by. How honest do you think Tudor and Carver are going to be about all their dog dealings when doing something as common as that?

Or brag about taking a squaw Indian women anytime you please. Or keeping other dog men's brood bitches after they paid stud fees and had shipped the bitch dogs to him. Then when Tudor feels some one has wronged him. He goes up on his mountain and starts caterwauling. No doubt he was a top dog man in his day. But to take all Tudor said as the gospel from Don's taped interviews and any of those other taped interviews. Is a little more salt than I would want to take on my food.

Your best contribution to this matter and to the others that have the rest of those tapes. Is to put them down on a CD and sell them for a fair price. Or have the interviews posted on this site, like Dead End does on the on lines pedigree site. Then everyone can make up their own minds. Still, getting those older pedigrees changed will be a moot point far as those registries are concerned. Cheers

CYJ , i dont disagree with you about the many flaws they had asdo many others, but were all human and everyone has there weakaness.As for taking all the audios as gospel , well like everything else i like to use common sense but those audios have a lot of truth in them, and also a lot of the bullshit that comes with playing the game, but on a historical note they are the best information source in the spoken word from most all of the players from that era ,and as such i am very glad i have the few i have.

You still havent said whether you think that the blind billy story looks like don and others were correct , but if you dont want to say anything about that , then i guess you agree with me , and if it is a lie then i feel that this is a case that the adba should put right , as theres no way based on the dob's of dibo and the age we know he was first bred by tudor and blind billys dob that dibo can be the sire , and i for one would think it would show a strong adba who cares about true pedigrees if they were to change that pedigree to unknown regardless of it being boudreuax, and infact would show the adba to not be showing favouritism to any one man ,be it legend friend or newbie .

[Officially Retired]

Projectx it is very hard to put 100% confidence in what any of those dog men like Mayfield/ Tudor/Boudreaux/Carver/Patrick and others said. It is like allowing yourself to become the outsider that gets caught up in their little family squabble. I too felt like you do in my younger years and was a crusader for the Truth of the pedigrees etc. Was not long before I found myself beating on a dead horse. One minute these same dog men were talking crap about each other, then later on being the best of pals. Even having group pictures took. Sitting there picking and a grinning at some pig picking.

Who would believe all that Earl Tudor had to say when much he did. Showed him to have some serious character flaws. In the Burton interview it was mentioned that Burton's wife could tell Mrs. Tudor was much afraid of ole Earl. If it be true, what sort of man lets a dog man pimp, bring over a young prostitute and have sex with her in the barn. While his wife of many years is in the House near by. How honest do you think Tudor and Carver are going to be about all their dog dealings when doing something as common as that?

Or brag about taking a squaw Indian women anytime you please. Or keeping other dog men's brood bitches after they paid stud fees and had shipped the bitch dogs to him. Then when Tudor feels some one has wronged him. He goes up on his mountain and starts caterwauling. No doubt he was a top dog man in his day. But to take all Tudor said as the gospel from Don's taped interviews and any of those other taped interviews. Is a little more salt than I would want to take on my food.

Your best contribution to this matter and to the others that have the rest of those tapes. Is to put them down on a CD and sell them for a fair price. Or have the interviews posted on this site, like Dead End does on the on lines pedigree site. Then everyone can make up their own minds. Still, getting those older pedigrees changed will be a moot point far as those registries are concerned. Cheers

Very good post, CYJ. Those tapes could be put to YouTube and posted here with the video links.

I have always believed as you do: a man who lies to and cheats on his wife will lie to and cheat anyone.

Jack

[No Quarter Kennel]

Projectx it is very hard to put 100% confidence in what any of those dog men like Mayfield/ Tudor/Boudreaux/Carver/Patrick and others said. It is like allowing yourself to become the outsider that gets caught up in their little family squabble. I too felt like you do in my younger years and was a crusader for the Truth of the pedigrees etc. Was not long before I found myself beating on a dead horse. One minute these same dog men were talking crap about each other, then later on being the best of pals. Even having group pictures took. Sitting there picking and a grinning at some pig picking.

Who would believe all that Earl Tudor had to say when much he did. Showed him to have some serious character flaws. In the Burton interview it was mentioned that Burton's wife could tell Mrs. Tudor was much afraid of ole Earl. If it be true, what sort of man lets a dog man pimp, bring over a young prostitute and have sex with her in the barn. While his wife of many years is in the House near by. How honest do you think Tudor and Carver are going to be about all their dog dealings when doing something as common as that?

Or brag about taking a squaw Indian women anytime you please. Or keeping other dog men's brood bitches after they paid stud fees and had shipped the bitch dogs to him. Then when Tudor feels some one has wronged him. He goes up on his mountain and starts caterwauling. No doubt he was a top dog man in his day. But to take all Tudor said as the gospel from Don's taped interviews and any of those other taped interviews. Is a little more salt than I would want to take on my food.

Your best contribution to this matter and to the others that have the rest of those tapes. Is to put them down on a CD and sell them for a fair price. Or have the interviews posted on this site, like Dead End does on the on lines pedigree site. Then everyone can make up their own minds. Still, getting those older pedigrees changed will be a moot point far as those registries are concerned. Cheers

Excellent. DB will tell you the first thing he learned form Tudor was, "You better be willing to cheat to win"
Well, hell, how honest are all these "good ole boys"
Mayfield was known to be a jealous man who continually run down just about anyone he could. I wouldn't take the word from someone like this on any topic in life. Not a single one.

[projectx]

Excellent. DB will tell you the first thing he learned form Tudor was, "You better be willing to cheat to win"
Well, hell, how honest are all these "good ole boys"
Mayfield was known to be a jealous man who continually run down just about anyone he could. I wouldn't take the word from someone like this on any topic in life. Not a single one.

NQK by the looks of your post it seems like you arethe one trying to run down mayfield ,even
when as it seems that he was right about the dogs mentioned so far in this thread , which
would mean your the jealous one trying to run him down.

Nqk i would agree with you entirely about mayfield being jealous if everytime he said something about the fake peds as mentioned in this thread they all turned out to be just in his imagination, but you know who started those rumours about don being jealous? the guys who owned the dogs he was talking about i wonder why?,and guess what don was right most of the time, so maybe
your perception of a jealous man depends on whos telling you that, i dont think anyone who can add up believes that blind billy or eli were bred as floyd papered them, so maybe you missed the theory and evidence in my post about blind billy and eli , and maybe you can tells us about how old mayfield the jealous guy as you say was wrong on that one .

[bolero]

NQK by the looks of your post it seems like you arethe one trying to run down mayfield ,even
when as it seems that he was right about the dogs mentioned so far in this thread , which
would mean your the jealous one trying to run him down.

Nqk i would agree with you entirely about mayfield being jealous if everytime he said something about the fake peds as mentioned in this thread they all turned out to be just in his imagination, but you know who started those rumours about don being jealous? the guys who owned the dogs he was talking about i wonder why?,and guess what don was right most of the time, so maybe
your perception of a jealous man depends on whos telling you that, i dont think anyone who can add up believes that blind billy or eli were bred as floyd papered them, so maybe you missed the theory and evidence in my post about blind billy and eli , and maybe you can tells us about how old mayfield the jealous guy as you say was wrong on that one .

ur not stating facts just mayfields rambles i would beleive floyds word over his u bought mayfields bullshit and im sorry nut that was your fault not ours mayfield could of lied about the dates and everything and he probably didmayfield was a conditioner as a breeder he sucked and those are the facts period,