I did not say Prolate/Lintox dip was without harmful effects. Hell dish soap is harmful if swallowed, doesn't mean I'm not going to use it to clean my dishes.
What I am saying is that when used correctly it is an effective and safe management of fleas, ticks and demodectic mange!
As well as Ivomec...another noxious chemical that is effective!
Actually, that is not obvious. I am sure you do take good care of your dogs, but some families of dogs are more prone, genetically, to mange than others.Originally Posted by S_B
I have seen some families of dogs that almost never get it.
I have also seen people with an assortment of dogs on the yard, all fed the same cheap food, with some dogs with mange, others without.
Please don't commit the absurdity (asininity) of comparing Prolate to dishwashing liquid. Please don't, because that is borderline retarded.
I know what you're saying. You've said it half a dozen times now.
And what **I** am saying is that, BEFORE you go to soaking your dog in TRULY NOXIOUS CHEMICALS (not dishwashing liquid pal), but truly noxious chemicals ... MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE FEEDING YOUR DOGS A TRULY OPTIMAL DIET, FIRST, AND THAT THEY'RE IN OPTIMAL CONDITIONS, SECOND.
And I should be able to say this without "you" coming on here, over and over again, like a broken record, reiterating your previous statements and making new (false) statements to justify what you said.
Because, at the end of the day, my statements are FIRST, and BEST practice.
Best practice will never be "feed your pups a shit-kibble" ... "keep them on the dirt/grass" ... and, by golly, if they get mange, then "soak them in Prolate."
THAT IS IDIOT-PRACTICE, NOT BEST PRACTICE
I try my best to advocate BEST practice.
Best practice = feed your pups an optimal raw diet, keep them in above-ground pens, and MOST LIKELY you won't have to give them any kind of drug at all.
Can I make this TRUTHFUL STATEMENT without hearing another word from you again about "Prolate" ... or how it's "okay" to feed pups shit-kibble? (What that guy is feeding isn't even good kibble, it's pure garbage.)
Thanks,
Jack
Jack,
I only dealt with it the first litter that I bred besides the one female I mentioned which was an outcross many years later.
It is obvious that the care (diet) I put into my dogs is the #1 reason I have not had a recurring issue .
Some people are just stuck on doing things a certain way for no other reason than because this is just how I do it. Doesn't matter if there is a better way or a healthier alternative. It always ends with "well this is what works for me". With that, even the most sound and logically advice will only be considered but probably never really put into effect.
Amen.
What people really want to hear is, "You're awesome dude. Doing everything perfectly."
They don't actually want to hear the truth, that they're halfasses, providing minimal care, and that what they're doing needs to be seriously upgraded (on every level) before they deserve to hear sincere praise and accolades ... and before they will ever get truly awesome results.
Jack
Jack,
I have used P/L many many times. Almost 15 years ago on my own bulldogs. At a dip clinic I volunteered at several times. Any time I acquired fleas from other dogmen (I've never had flea or tick issues on my yard) And at the veterinary clinic I worked in.
Never have I worn goggles, gloves or a full body suit. Not one of my dogs, nor anyone else's dogs, or cats have EVER become ill after being dipped in P/L.
Some of those dogs came in 2x a month at the vet clinic.
So just because you don't advocate the use of P/L, does not mean it isn't a good product.
You are a very smart fella, you have put out lots of great info.
But you are not the expert in everything, not by a longshot.
I'm actually very easy to talk to, should you change your mind on that call.
P.S.
I still dip my field cat, as she gets into the woods regularly, and I hate always applying that noxious chemical (Frontline) on her back every month. So on the off months, it's a dip if I see a tick!
Translation: You violate all of the instructions, but you have never paid the price yet.
But that still doesn't make it good advice.
I never said it wasn't a good product at what it does; I said it is a noxious chemical, and it is.
I said getting their feed and quarters in order was step #1.
Thank you. And yes I have.
I have never claimed to be an expert at "everything," but I *am* an expert on virtually all aspects regarding the subject of dogs
And I have bred more dogs, dealt with more issues on the subject of dogs, experimented with probably more diets (and drug products) than 99.9999999999% of anyone alive who's still feeding dogs.
So you might want to pay a little more attention to what I am saying on "this subject"
LMAO, and so am I, should you actually PM your number to meJack,
I'm actually very easy to talk to, should you change your mind on that call.
Again, you're babbling about something (Frontline) that has nothing to do with this issue: demodectic mange and its cause/cure.
The cause is weakened immune system, which could be genetic, but could also be nutritional/environmental.
My suggestion is the best: correct the nutritional/environmental aspect FIRST ... and decide later if drugs are even necessary.
Your suggestion (no consideration of nutrition/environment), and just use a drug, is non-advice. Your defense of your position, saying Prolate is no more dangerous than dishwashing liquid, was absurd.
There really is nothing to debate ... or talk about further.
Have a good night
Jack
PSS... I don't even drink enough to say I drink. Nor do I do any drugs, I work to much for any of that mess!
This is awl natural baby! Lmfao
Its true that immune system plays an important part in the cause of demodectic mange so improving health conditions is a smart thing to do. One thing i wouldn't use again is:
"ectodex" (amitraz). Had the most human friendly bitch ever, and she got aggressive towards me two times when intoxicated with it after i applied it on her. Very strong stuff, you don't want to put your nose above the bottle yourself.
Exactly. I have used amitraz multiple times myself, and (while it too worked), I only used it as a last resort, because of how noxious it is as a chemical.
Prolate is much like amitraz, and has the same warning level (actually, you are instructed NOT to use Prolate on swine less than 3 months old, because it can kill them). This drug has the same requirement as amitraz to use a bib, goggles, gloves, etc., as well as the same biohazrd warning NOT to dump the product anywhere at all in the environment, but to dispose of any excess at a proper biohazard facility, because of how truly noxious it is. They don't make these biohazard requirements for these drugs because of how "safe" they are; in fact quite the opposite. There are other drugs, such as cyhalothrin or cypermethrin, that can be used but the point of HEALTH is likewise being compromised.
These drugs are something to be used as a LAST resort, not the first thing you do "before" you even bother to change the diet or living conditions that contributed to the problem. For that matter, since all of these dips are to be left on "wet," you don't put the animal back into a dirt pen after a dip ... but into an above-ground pen anyway. So that should be the first change made, regardless: proper living quarters for an infected animal.
There are many powerful drugs that can handle mange mites, and (since over the counter amitraz is becoming more scarce) new patents for new drugs are happening.
But to rely on these drugs first, when (and while) the person still has their animals in a primitive dirt pen (rather than professional setup), and while feeding the animals a substandard feed (the majority of the ingredients of which are a who's-who roster for ingredients KNOWN to cause skin problems) is simply folly. And to have some guy (who doesn't follow the other rules of how to use Prolex properly) just poo-poo the idea of getting the conditions changed FIRST, and diet changed FIRST, would only fall right in line with his other total disregard for following the recommended protocol in which to use the very drug he's espousing also.
I don't know how any sane, experienced fancier can't possibly see THE SENSE in first getting those pups into a legitimate, clean, above-ground puppy pen (as opposed to a dirt kennel) ... then feeding them something that is actually GOOD nutrition for them ... before anything else is even considered. Because that is the sensible approach.
As someone who has received back at least 10 dogs because "they had mange" ... ALL OF WHOM were being fed cheap kibble by their cheap owners ... and MOST OF WHOM got better simply by being cared for better (better diet / better quarters, when I got them back) ... that I KNOW (not "think," but KNOW) my advise is spot on.
Some dogs are simply able to handle cheap, inappropriate kibble diets better than others ... and in those dogs who can't handle these cheap kibble concoctions, the very first sign of breakdown is skin disorders (mange, allergies, etc.) ... and so the very first way OUT of those disorders is by changing their diets to something that is actually nutritious for them ... it's NOT to keep feeding them shit, keep housing them in their dirt pen, but "just dip them in drugs."
And anyone who can't see the basic sense of this needs to have their head examined.
Jack
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