the right weight

[FrostyPaws]

we do hydrate threw the whole keep. we use 1oz of water for every pound of body weight. the last week the water gets substituted with pedialyte.

with the use of rf1, oils, raw feed and Pedialyte our dogs are ready to be dried out.

the dex not only dries us out properly but it is a anti-inflammatory. so our lips are like leather. (less fang calls) and our head & nose won't swell do to the pig trying to pull us out. my biggest fear is a good nose hog. I breed for great mouth so keeping the swelling down around the nose and the eyes are big concerns. dex makes me sleep easy the night before. lol

being so dry and not swelled it makes it so much easier to find a vein during the aftercare.

the good with Dex outweighs the bad.

If you're using the 1oz per pound method, you don't need pedialyte at all. You're simply adding something else basically for the sake of adding it.

You can strip off extra water by simply reducing the amount of water the dog gets. The dog's body will rid itself of the excess water and be how it needs to be.

You won't have fang calls unless you have something hanging around your mouth. It doesn't matter if you use dex or not in that case. Same can be said for a quality head/nose dog. No amount of dex is going to help with the damage those kinds of animals can inflict.

Being dry actually hinders IV access due to veins collapsing, rolling, etc due to not enough fluid volume. Not only that, but being dry also hurts the dog's body throughout it's performance, and if you go a long time, you stand a much greater chance of passing than otherwise.

NOW, all of my ideas/knowledge are strictly based on my idea of dry dogs and working in the medical field on people.

[EWO]

It is funny how things change. When I first started dex was an absolute. We used it both for the effects of an inflammatory but also used it as a means for drying the dog / de-watering if you will. In time I felt like the dog will de-water himself if he is healthy, plus the amount of water is metered/measured.

When I first got away from dex I used the ounce per pound method of hydration. It seemed like it was border line 'not enough' in the earlier stages of work. I used the ounce per pound method but left water available throughout the early stages. They used that water as well.

Four or five weeks in on the ounce per pound method the dog comes off that bowl and seldom touches it. At that point it is removed and the ounce per pound method dials the dog in without the use of dex, or any other diuretic. He will then piss himself to a good water content.

I think the issue is more so when water is used to dial in on an exact weight. It is like he is a half pound over lets force him to piss a couple of times to make weight. This will lead to a dry dog. And it is funny how the dollars help make that decision, I'm going to piss him to weight so I don't have to pay the forfeit, but I wouldn't water him up to get a half pound more.

Sort of rambling. EWO

[mitchm]

EWO, there's no rambling on your part, just great information, may be too much for someone new like myself. There's so much information out there that it sometimes worries me what I will do or not do when the time comes to put a dog through keep for my first time. I seem to be more worried about how I will feed, supplementation, hydration, drugs and arriving on weight much more than how to and how much to work a dog, that seems like the easy part.

If you could give advice to someone doing their first keep, what would it be?

[gotap_d]

If i had to give the advice it would be to tag along and help out with an experienced conditioner who is doing a keep. If that option is not available the next best thing would be to do your own keep for an adba show just as a trial run and see if you can make weight or how the dog takes to it. Basically just practice foing it.

[Nut]

Ill give you one advise. Don't use/try any steroids or doping. (dont know if thats what u mean with "drugs") It doens't only fuck up rather than help 80% of the people who are experimenting with it. Keeps u from telling how ur base keep works as well. Hydration method that Frosty mentions works fine. 1 oz per lb. and cut it back to normal the last days.

[mitchm]

If i had to give the advice it would be to tag along and help out with an experienced conditioner who is doing a keep. If that option is not available the next best thing would be to do your own keep for an adba show just as a trial run and see if you can make weight or how the dog takes to it. Basically just practice foing it.

That would be ideal but unfortunately I'm a bit out of the way. I do have friends to help out but essentially it'll be me on my own. Thanks

[mitchm]

Ill give you one advise. Don't use/try any steroids or doping. (dont know if thats what u mean with "drugs") It doens't only fuck up rather than help 80% of the people who are experimenting with it. Keeps u from telling how ur base keep works as well. Hydration method that Frosty mentions works fine. 1 oz per lb. and cut it back to normal the last days.

That's what I was referring to and I never truly would use steroids but it had crossed my mind since it's a topic of debate amongst the more experienced. Thanks for your input!

[EWO]

This is a pretty good place for information. LOL Lots of articles and lots of knowledgeable people to learn from.

Just a few freebies...Go to the raw feeding articles. There is an economy version and then there are some premium plans. The economy version is actually a pretty good base line for a keep. Just about everything is there. A couple of adjustments to the economy plan and some supplementation help and the feed bowl is real close, most definitely in the ball park.

The steroids are another story altogether. Nut said 80% but I would go to the mid 90's, even higher. Most people who use steroids on the dogs apply them with humans in mind, especially dosing. If bodybuilding.com says 400mg per week they are talking about a 200lb. man not a 40lb dog. So many fail to grasp that calculation to mg/lb of bodyweight. Some do not understand the need to increase work and still ensure rest. Just because the dog recovers in an amazing fashion does not mean rest becomes a non-factor. It is not an easy fix, and it does not hide not understanding how to work a dog, it actually exposes the conditioners inabilities.

The hardest thing to do is pick an ideal weight. Lots of posts on here covering this subject. Basically it is the dog at his strongest at his lowest weight. If a dog weighs 50lbs and can do a task then drop him to 49. If he can do the task t 49 go to 48. Continue to drop til he can't do the task, then go up til he can accomplish the task. That is his weight, and for the new guys, add 1 from there. Better to miss one over than to miss one under.

The equipment boils down to what the dog will use. The most glamorous slat mill with all the bells and whistles is a big pile of shit if the dog will not run it. The $10 flirt pole is the best thing since individually wrapped cheese if the dog works it all out. If a person has a secluded area and the dog will chase a ball all out and play fetch, screw the equipment, you can make it without it.

Equipment is mostly preference. Teach the dog to work it at a young age and the equipment is worth its weight in gold. All of them work when used correctly, and all of them are detrimental to the dog when used incorrectly.

Again, sorry for babbling. But post your questions in the appropriate sections and the information is plentiful. EWO

[mitchm]

Yes, this site has a wealth of real knowledge and real information. To often I don't ask the questions that I would like to for fear of getting jumped on. If everything goes as planned for my male he will be a pleasure to condition, he loves to work and use all the tools. I'll stay in proper sections from now on. Thanks

[EWO]

Never worry about being jumped on, for one it is really good board. For two, screw 'em, it is the internet. Hard to get a black eye from the keyboard. LOL

The sections help keep things separated but like all great conversation, the great posts/exchanges gravitate all over the place. Some one will ask about a slat mill, which will gravitate to a carpet mill, to a winning dog who was hand walked only, to whether to breed to the dog that won or to the dog that made the dog who won, to why the producing dog was fed half raw/half kibble, to what pair of shoes to wear when working the dogs, all the way to whether you believe scientology is a load of crap or not.

What I like best about this board is that with all the other boards a good series of posts, for whatever reasons, end up with someone's Mom wearing combat boots, a series of name calling, then calling one another out knowing full well that 'computer combat' seldom leads to real combat.

It is a good board. Fire away. Take advantage of what is floating around in this arena. EWO