Half siblings but never have I known of littermates being hooked into each other.
Half siblings but never have I known of littermates being hooked into each other.
Honestly i really don't see a problem with matching the dogs together I was asking for a history lesson.To me there is really no difference in matching brother/brother or sister/sister than Bullyson to his son or when Aycart went against Tant, or any random Eli dog against another. I very well could be wrong just my opinion.
As I said in paragraph 2 of my previous post, "To just 'match weights' with no regard for bloodline is to have zero loyalty to anything but 'dog fighting' ..."
To some it is all about weights. To some their loyalty lies in the desire to stand on top of the winning dog. To some standing on top of the winning dog is a better shake than preserving a family or perpetuating a bloodline. If that meant winning over the dog's brother or even the handler's brother, the loyalty is to winning, more so than dog fighting.
EWO
I understand that.Originally Posted by EWO
To some it's all about winning, to others it's all about having (and perpetuating) exceptional qualities in a group of dogs.
Ultimately, it is all about values.
IMO, those who hyper-focus on winning, placing this value above all else, are typically those with highly-suspect characters ... and are generally the most destructive individuals in the sport.
For example, such folks are prone rub the other dog (or sneak-in a foul in some other kind of way). "Winning is everything," is their justification.
Even the so-called "honest" competitors who place winning over all else seldom have any dogs live a long time on their yard (and they're seldom able to breed many good dogs of their own).
They waste more than they win.
It is inarguable that having 2 high-quality Champion brothers is better overall than having 1 Champion brother standing over his dead littermate.
The dead brother might have produced better; the live Champion might go sterile, or die in a yard accident, blah-blah.
Killing-off the competition is teamwork; killing off each other is stupidity. (Works that way in war, sports, etc.)
But there are people who will do that ... who are absolutely, totally into "themselves" and "winning ... to the exclusion of everything else ... and I don't trust such people as far as I could throw them.
Jack
I'm with you on this post. Its just 2 different sides of the fence. All of those things scream competitor except preserving the family or perpetuating a bloodline part. We were using the great Ch vs great Ch littermate example. What if one of the dogs was a hard mouthed cur that ran through all of his schoolings. His littermate bro gets hooked into him and causes him to pack it in short order because he cant take qhat he dishes out. Thats preserving the bloodline. Keeping the inferior cur brother from ever being bred in the first place.
I'm not a "win at all costs" type competitor, nor am I a breeder of any particular line of dogs with my name on it. That being said, I wouldn't match a dog into his littermate. I've already seen both dogs, had my hands on both dogs, and I probably kept the dog I like best. If the brother can win against open competition, that's great, but don't expect me to hook into some dog I bred with his brother.
To Johngilpat, matching into the same bloodline isn't the same as matching into littermates. You can't really escape showing into dogs of similar lines, but you surely can escape showing into littermates.
With people selling dogs from coast to coast it gets a little tough to know exactly what you're going into. Assume you set a date with a guy that is 3 or 4 states away. A mutual friend sets the stage, but a couple weeks in, you find out you are racing a half brother to what you're bringing. Both of you bought dogs from said breeder and like the results. Do you then pay the ff because of loyalties to the blood? Suppose its a litter mate. What then do you do?
Now as a breeder I would never do such a thing. I would also hope that no one whom has my animals would do so. That is the problem some run into when you make your animals commercial products. They go all over and they may or may not go into one another. Not everyone cares to perpetuate a bloodline, but you hope they do right by your blood.
The stage you set here is the classic example of what happens when people can't breed their own good dogs.
I would never "not know" what dog/line I was matching into
Although my matching experience was limited, there is no way I "didn't know" who/what I was matched into in the few matches I did have.
I spoke to all parties before the deal, I knew which dog (and what line) I was going into, etc.
IMO, anyone who has "someone else" hook a dog + weight for them is a moron ... with no control over anything.
I would NEVER (repeat, NEVER) match into an unknown person/dog ...
I would always talk to my opponents, and (just for conversation-sake) just talking dogs like dogmen, I would ask how my opponents' dogs were bred, what they'd done, etc. I always did this because I simply liked to talk dogs and was always interested to know what my opponents were bringing and why.
IMO, only someone who was brain-dead, and lacked basic human curiosity, would just "match weights" (like a robot), and would not care who/what they were going into ...
Not to mention the fact that anyone who doesn't first check who/what they were going into lacks basic self-preservation instincts (because not everyone who comes to dog deals is a dogman)
In the few times I did match, I always tried to go into top-shelf people (known to be honest, good sports, and to bring top-shelf dogs).
I would never just let someone else randomly "blind-date" match me and my dog into "any idiot" with "any dog" my weight ...
Jack
It happenes all the time. People do get ducked and also have very good dogs that get ducked. A way around that is to not say the dogs name or way he's bred to the opponent. Hook a weight and set the ff high so you dont just back out on show night when great dog so and so is brought to the scales. Hooking names does 2 things. Sets the stage for someone to be ducked or sets the stage for what could be a great show ie sandman/buck or titere/balboa. Say you hooked into a well known and respected dogman and you did happen to know what dog he was going to use before you guys put up the ff and set a date. If his dog gets hurt midway through the keep is he not alowed to get a replacement without you knowing the exact breeding and name of the dog?The stage you set here is the classic example of what happens when people can't breed their own good dogs.
I would never "not know" what dog/line I was matching into
Although my matching experience was limited, there is no way I "didn't know" who/what I was matched into in the few matches I did have.
I spoke to all parties before the deal, I knew which dog (and what line) I was going into, etc.
IMO, anyone who has "someone else" hook a dog + weight for them is a moron ... with no control over anything.
I would NEVER (repeat, NEVER) match into an unknown person/dog ...
I would always talk to my opponents, and (just for conversation-sake) just talking dogs like dogmen, I would ask how my opponents' dogs were bred, what they'd done, etc. I always did this because I simply liked to talk dogs and was always interested to know what my opponents were bringing and why.
IMO, only someone who was brain-dead, and lacked basic human curiosity, would just "match weights" (like a robot), and would not care who/what they were going into ...
Not to mention the fact that anyone who doesn't first check who/what they were going into lacks basic self-preservation instincts (because not everyone who comes to dog deals is a dogman
In the few times I did match, I always tried to go into top-shelf people (known to be honest, good sports, and to bring top-shelf dogs).
I would never just let someone else randomly "blind-date" match me and my dog into "any idiot" with "any dog" my weight ...
Jack
ThanksThe stage you set here is the classic example of what happens when people can't breed their own good dogs.
Correct, but not all people like or enjoy raising pups. The breeding, whelping, and raising of pups just isn't for everyone. They would rather hear about the good one, take a look at him, purchase, and maximize his potential as a bulldog.
I would never "not know" what dog/line I was matching into
Here, I could care less. I wouldn't want to go into my own, but the only way to ensure you don't is to keep them to yourself. Unless specifically chasing one in particular, you aren't hooking into a bloodline, you are hooking into an individual.
IMO, anyone who has "someone else" hook a dog + weight for them is a moron ... with no control over anything.
Once again, that is your way. For instance, If I were to do that and my brother whom lives in another state sets the stage, I'm more than confident he wouldn't steer me wrong, and he'd have our best interest in mind. I may not know this person, but I would trust his judgement when orchestrating the deal. Not speaking of any Joe Blow, but someone I have full trust in.
In the few times I did match, I always tried to go into top-shelf people (known to be honest, good sports, and to bring top-shelf dogs).
I commend you for this, because that is the way it should be. Shoot for the best and don't pick on the locals you know are sub par competition. Sometimes, that requires a "semi blind date" or you may have crossed path before without a formal introduction.
Jack
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