Brood stock

[Frank43]

I'm happy with where I am. So far dogs have produced are doing well. I'm never really satisfied. But when people have peeped at dogs you gave them and they are tucked away for safe keeping. That means something. If they sucked they would say. I picked up two brood dogs this past week. Went to a name in the business. I said I was going to stay away From Eli dogs. You go to the yard you talk to the man. You think. He has produced more champions than anyone else. You do like his breeding strategies even though you would do it with another blood line. He shows you this dog that is 17 years old. Coefficient of inbreeding is prob 40 on him. 17. You see a son of his. He looks you in the eye and you're like. "That's a mf man right there I need to work him in. Hanna is a damn dog. Indian sonny did some shit with Eli bolio. This is more Eli Hollingsworth with a bolio style and finish. That could make some mf dogs. I guess I lied. I'm buying an eli dog. To take to Hanna. Gr ch vengeance was damn dog. Eli bolio Indian sonny blood. I guess there is about to be a new wing to the sledge dog family. Some black, seal, red chocolate murdering mf. Came back with some titere blood. I liked that little pup out the litter. He acted like he had some sense in tractor supply. Then went back to acting crazy when I put him in the grass. That doesn't mean much to people. It means something to me. Start playing with him. I notice something with him.

There's something called a wet blanket in Jiu jitsu. I used to do it. You fight for a important position. Once you get there you find a way to lean on whoever. I used to pass guard. Get to side control. Plus or minus slide to mount. The whole time they are occupied dodge submission attempts. You get mount. Start fishing for collar chokes. He fights and turns into you. You take his back. Mata Leon "kill the lion" naked choke. Back and forth he runs. Until at some point he tires physically or breaks. He wants you to kill him. Wet shirt. All the white you aren't really working or straining. Taking what he's giving you and waiting to finish.

That titere pup is a wet blanket. Titere prob was. I can fell how he wrestles against my arm. His weight is there then it isn't. The pup is triple bred on titere.

Plan for those two pups is to take to Hanna. Hanna is my strongest athlete, smart, bolio killer. Named the titere pup Solomon. Solomon x Hanna prob make me some smart talented killers.

Martel x Hanna prob me more power less cat and mouse.

I gotta call him and go back for the female littermate. Be good for my abner dog. He's a young monster.

[Frank43]

I guess I look at it like music or something. Are you memorizing licks or using notes to speak what needs to come out. I haven't done a brother sister. I would do any breeding at any time depending on what I need. When you do them you need to know why snd what the downsides are. I could do a brother sister off my stoic dog to his sister lyudmila. They are outcross dogs. They share Hollingsworth bull as a common ancestor. I think the brother sister worked with 357 because they were an outcross off two completely unrelated lines. Vice grip did one. Said he had good dogs and some genetic problems.

The tight breedings I did exposed some palate issues. Gap over and underbite. My line was traditionally best to best loose line breeding. There are probably a lot of deleterious recessives in there. Gap under and over bites are natures way of culling. If a female can't cut the cord the pup may die maybe her.

I don't know what the next styles of breeding I'll do. I tightened up on a few individuals snd they are vigorous. I have been looking for complimentary outcrosses. Next phase will be rolling these back in mother son father daughter. Half brother sister.

I would still like to thank titan and garner for the dogs they gave me. The shit you go through with these dogs. It's like giving your kids to someone. Crews too but I have to go back and replace a pup. I hear you on the dogs letting toy know what breedings you. Need. It's crazy how one will make you rearrange your long term plan.

As for the brother sister thing. You do them for a reason. I guess you have to do it like a man and deal with the consequences. When I triple bred Abner. I needed a male Clo. Plus I wanted more machobuck Hollingsworth. I needed it to throw. I triple crossed it. Sound dogs. Good temperaments. Good maternal characteristics out of the mom. She had six pups. I watched the birth number go from 11 or 13 to six. She laid on three. One had a gap underbite. Abner was outstanding to me and so damn dominant. Caleb was a good dog. I had to get him away from Abner. When you weigh a stud that produces vs cold or pup that don't make grade. I would rather breed to higher percentages. I know that Abner has less chance to throw bad underbites and his structure and Temprament is solid.

For me the garners titere cross is needed. New genes and vigor. Garner has triple bred pups out of titere and they are dropping 13 still. Titere was damn near scatterbred. He's bringing some uniformity to it. I'm good with 6-8 well bred uniform pups.

So for me. 50/50 Hollingsworth titere are prob up. Maybe some father son mother daughter after that. I can post the peds. Damn I'm not wanting to post them as much much now. I'm in the lab. Maybe a rational strategy being put out is better for the breed. I have to tell myself. You can't control everything and hopefully it will come back to you.

I'll post some of those peds later.

[CYJ]

There was a dog man that started out with individual proven dogs. Had some Truett Red Boy/Joe Beal-Red Boy-Jocko- Garner's Chinaman and my Face and my Winchester-Truett's Missy (Creel/ Mayfield/Davis's Boomerang bloodline and a good bit of Boudreaux stock as well.

After some heavy culling and certain dogs that had won proven dog shows etc. He started blending these dogs and culling as he went. These dogs over time were well built/big boned and long bodies.

He could brother/sister breed these dogs and dogs remained well built/powerful dogs with no physical faults and no barrel and root chewers etc. Solid calm dogs. He brother/sister bred on more than one occasion and then would line bred off best stud dog for a while.

Was a very successful dog man and was hard to beat. So, IMHO however you start out. Start with good bloodlines and use only proven dogs. Dogs well-built and calm. To me it is a waste of money to try and build a yard around buying puppies.

Try to find an older well-built or proven or proven producer, calm female dog that can still have pups. Then study its pedigree really well. Especially with the pedigree tools we have on this site. Pick a well-built proven stud dog that has at least a third of the pedigree of dogs as the female has.

Breed them and in a year or so. You will see how well it is going. With that said. If you get that certain feeling about breeding that female to a certain stud dog, you like. Go for it, gut feelings can be right.

Another dog man I knew long ago. Had some dogs bred off my Winchester x Sally female and His Loposay's Bullet II female. Later years I visited him, and he had some nice dogs.

I saw two dogs that he said one had got off the chain being an eight pound or so bigger dog and got on the smaller dog that was on its chain. Both dogs got wreaked and both dogs got veterinarian care.

The smaller dog was really well bred and was jet black. I asked him, you are telling me that little fellow on the chain did all that to that bigger dog. He said yes. The bigger dog was well bred and no slouch.

I looked at that well-built little man, solid black/black eyes. I told him I got a real gut feeling about that dog. While you can, breed him to your best bitches as they come in heat. He did and overtime got some good dogs. Get a powerful gut feeling sometimes. Go for it, might get some show time winners. LOL Cheers

[EWO]

First and foremost, I am not a breeder.

I think before one looks at the relationship between two dogs is to look at the traits of the two and move forward from there.

I have never done a breeding with preservation in mind or looking to make dogs to make dogs.

The closest relationship I have done is half-brother-half-sister breeding.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=47590

This male Hatchet is a pretty good dog. When he peaked I got sick and got rid of just about all the dogs. I kept him and one or two more. If I had not gotten sick he would have went to the show. I feel like he had just as good chance as any to post some W's.

Mims Bonnie was off Jiggs and Lucky. The percentage of game dogs produced by Lucky is out of this world. Jiggs was a straight Red Boy male but threw rough, durable hard mouthed head dogs. Bonnie had multiple winners in her litter. Her brother People's Joker was a heck of a dog. She had a winning sister in CoalField Kennels Mercy. When bred to Spiffy, Lucky threw Mims/DTA's CH Charlie (4XW). Charlie is the best, most complete dog I have ever seen. The above dog is Spiffy/Lucky and Jiggs/Lucky both top and bottom.

On the top Holly (Spiffy-Lucky) was outcrossed to a Garner/Kronos male. Both dogs were offensive minded head dogs. On the bottom Holly was bred to Chingaling, which was a Mims Snooty (Red Boy) to some of the old Molly Bee-Snooty blood back to Holly. (Snooty being the binder).

The best male from the cross on the top was Doorstop. Six out of seven in this litter were matched. Doorstop was not because he wrecked his teeth early. (Hard to say he was the best when others were matched but he was rougher and harder mouthed). Doorstop was bred to Bonnie.

On the bottom Purepower's CH. Skull (4XW) who went over 2 hours twice, both times due to poor preparation. He did it on his own with heart and desire. Skull was bred to Bonnie to get Pancake.

From there, Stump was bred to Pancake. Stump had a winning brother. I would have bred to him but he went far away. Pancake looked like Bonnie had spit her out and carried every trait Bonnie had from a puppy to an adult. When Pancake was a pretty good female and when she was ready to ride Mims Bonnie passed on. Her owner decided to keep her for breeding. Stump was born without a back foot and was placed as a pet. He was not pet material and when looked at he was a very talented dog. With traction, he could have rode up and down the road.

Thus Hatchet is the result of 1/2 bro-sis breeding when our group owned or seen just about all the dogs in the six generation pedigree.

Most every dog was offensive minded head dogs so even when the outcrosses happened, the litters had a lot of offensive minded head dogs.

We bred for those traits, even on the out crosses, the traits were the same.

I think it is more about selection than relation.

But again, I am no breeder.

EWO

[brightlight168]

First and foremost, I am not a breeder.

I think before one looks at the relationship between two dogs is to look at the traits of the two and move forward from there.

I have never done a breeding with preservation in mind or looking to make dogs to make dogs.

The closest relationship I have done is half-brother-half-sister breeding.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=47590

This male Hatchet is a pretty good dog. When he peaked I got sick and got rid of just about all the dogs. I kept him and one or two more. If I had not gotten sick he would have went to the show. I feel like he had just as good chance as any to post some W's.

Mims Bonnie was off Jiggs and Lucky. The percentage of game dogs produced by Lucky is out of this world. Jiggs was a straight Red Boy male but threw rough, durable hard mouthed head dogs. Bonnie had multiple winners in her litter. Her brother People's Joker was a heck of a dog. She had a winning sister in CoalField Kennels Mercy. When bred to Spiffy, Lucky threw Mims/DTA's CH Charlie (4XW). Charlie is the best, most complete dog I have ever seen. The above dog is Spiffy/Lucky and Jiggs/Lucky both top and bottom.

On the top Holly (Spiffy-Lucky) was outcrossed to a Garner/Kronos male. Both dogs were offensive minded head dogs. On the bottom Holly was bred to Chingaling, which was a Mims Snooty (Red Boy) to some of the old Molly Bee-Snooty blood back to Holly. (Snooty being the binder).

The best male from the cross on the top was Doorstop. Six out of seven in this litter were matched. Doorstop was not because he wrecked his teeth early. (Hard to say he was the best when others were matched but he was rougher and harder mouthed). Doorstop was bred to Bonnie.

On the bottom Purepower's CH. Skull (4XW) who went over 2 hours twice, both times due to poor preparation. He did it on his own with heart and desire. Skull was bred to Bonnie to get Pancake.

From there, Stump was bred to Pancake. Stump had a winning brother. I would have bred to him but he went far away. Pancake looked like Bonnie had spit her out and carried every trait Bonnie had from a puppy to an adult. When Pancake was a pretty good female and when she was ready to ride Mims Bonnie passed on. Her owner decided to keep her for breeding. Stump was born without a back foot and was placed as a pet. He was not pet material and when looked at he was a very talented dog. With traction, he could have rode up and down the road.

Thus Hatchet is the result of 1/2 bro-sis breeding when our group owned or seen just about all the dogs in the six generation pedigree.

Most every dog was offensive minded head dogs so even when the outcrosses happened, the litters had a lot of offensive minded head dogs.

We bred for those traits, even on the out crosses, the traits were the same.

I think it is more about selection than relation.

But again, I am no breeder.

EWO

Did you plan to have head dogs that is why you bred them? (did you prefer head dogs?)

[EWO]

Yes.

Game dogs are hard to come by and game dogs with a ton of mouth are even more scarce. A offensive minded head dog does not have to have a ton of mouth to find the cur in another dog, especially the dog that stays in the face.

From there usually two things happen. One, with minimal mouth a head/face dog can take the mouth from another. A offensive minded head dog plays defense by playing offense and does not receive a lot of punishment.

A offensive minded head dog can be a lesser dog and get in and get out with a W.

These do not have to be all out freaks just dogs who are willing to stay 50-55 minutes and have average to slightly above average mouth.

EWO/EWO II

[EWO]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=41369

This dog could not bust an egg. He was a ways away from having average mouth.

He was absolutely relentless. He scratched like a rocket and went right between the eyes and stayed there. He could dance like none other. He didn't have enough mouth to defend himself but once he landed there was no letting go.

He beat two dogs that all in all were better than him, or at least has more winning quailities.

EWO

[EWO]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=42272

This dog was a chest and brisket dog. He had a boat load of mouth and could really deliver.

When he won he actaully looked like he lost.

EWO/EWO II

[brightlight168]

Yes.

Game dogs are hard to come by and game dogs with a ton of mouth are even more scarce. A offensive minded head dog does not have to have a ton of mouth to find the cur in another dog, especially the dog that stays in the face.

From there usually two things happen. One, with minimal mouth a head/face dog can take the mouth from another. A offensive minded head dog plays defense by playing offense and does not receive a lot of punishment.

A offensive minded head dog can be a lesser dog and get in and get out with a W.

These do not have to be all out freaks just dogs who are willing to stay 50-55 minutes and have average to slightly above average mouth.

EWO/EWO II

Very good read. I always asks headdog lovers Why?
This is the best explanation.
I've seen Captain Ben, brough a head/face female in the Philippines, a long time ago, it was like not devastating but sticks in the face and wont let go.

[Frank43]

Head face seems like a jab to me. Not ear sucking. To me it’s about the plan. A bolio type that gets a first grab face hold. Then works to flip and get in the throat and finish. Priceless. It’s like mayweather with some Tyson finish. Or Ali staying out of trouble against Liston then ending him with the pullback right.

https://youtu.be/Hb2WFHhXDyw

Something about head dog screams control pace and distance. Brains.