1 man's CUR is another man's GAME

[Officially Retired]

i have to dissagree with a dog who quits on top being a cur because that dog was not acting cowardly because he had nothing to fear to me a dog like thaat lacks the desire to finish not the will to win, because in his mind he already won, he sees no need to scratch because he kicked that dogs ass already

Mmmm, I would have to see the dog to agree/disagree with you.

Plenty of athletic dogs will shit all over themselves to a game dog they can "physically overpower," but who nonetheless is so game they keep scrambling after the more talented dog's ass.

In other words, just because a dog is "winning" doesn't mean he WON ... he is just winning "for now" ... and plenty of dogs, the moment they get tired, start to panic if they're in there against a game dog that can breathe ... precisely because the more talented dog senses he won't be able to stay ahead much longer.

So it all depends on the circumstances ... and I personally wouldn't want anything to do with any dog who would "stop scratching" while he knows he has an opponent in the corner ... seeing as, in Cajun Rules, scratching is the name of the game.

Jack

Edit: I would also like to add that the desire to finish (meaning to hit true kill spots), and the desire to "keep fighting" (meaning to continue to attack the other dog, even if it's only to shake a leg or a shoulder) are not the same thing ... and a dog who lacks the desire to "keep fighting" a dog he's whipping can hardly be called a game dog IMO.

[skipper]

I have seen dead game dogs gone under ten minutes. It's not the time, but the punishment they withstand during that time. Someone I know have a Nasty Nasty bitch who is on the bigger side. He puts his smaller females on her for ten mins, if they can handle that he considered them game enough.

[Officially Retired]

I personally would find it hard to call a dog "dead game" who got snuffed in under :10. I would just say the dog got killed.

While I understand there are no clear-cut definitions, time-wise, as to "how long" a dog has to go before he can be called "game" ... in my mind a "game test" presupposes a certain amount of weariness and sustained abuse. In other words, there has to be a certain amount of fatigue that plays into it also, on top of a certain amount of sustained domination and constant abuse. A dog that gets killed in :10 is basically a fresh dog (fatigue-wise); he just got quickly murdered (injury-wise).

I would feel comfortable saying, "The dog got killed and never made a bad move," but I personally wouldn't say he showed "dead game" ... as ten minutes is a joke time frame IMO.

For example, four times Silverback has had dogs stretched-out getting killed in the throat in under :10, and on each case (when SB was pried out) the other dogs, after flopping-around and getting their air back, all "wanted more" ... but I sure as hell wouldn't call anything they did even remotely close to a "game test."

The truth is, these dog were choked TF out by Silverback while still fresh, and they simply would have been "dead dogs" had I not pried The Gorilla out of their throats. But they were not even remotely "game tested" by what happened ... they just would have been killed in the throat very quickly.

Jack

[skipper]

I understand what you mean, and my point wasn't that 10 minute frame. But to show my point of view deep gameness doesn't have to pass the hour or anything like that. A dog that scratchers with broken legs, guts hanging out, to a certain death is a dead game dog in my book. If he would go with that kind of injury I find it hard he would've stopped in other situations. JMHO

[Officially Retired]

I understand what you mean as well.

I know of dogs that would take a killing ... so long as they can at least get their own holds and "bite back" ... but that same dog quit on all fours, without much damage at all, because it couldn't take being held out by the ear to where it could never get a single hold and, ultimately, he ran out of gas. So different dogs have different breaking points ...

I guess this just goes to show why each case is unique, and (as such) must be looked at individually

Cheers,

Jack

[skipper]

True. We all sea things the way we believe are best for our dogs. Thats whats makes this sport so exciting.

[FrostyPaws]

I would have to agree with Jack in that no dog that gets killed in 10 minutes is deadgame. It could have been a fluke event, but chances are, the dog was simply an outclassed, below average dog in there with something that it should have never seen. Time is but a factor of measurement. There is not enough accumulated damage inside of 10 minutes to render anything dead game. It is simply rendered as dead.

[waccamaw]

a lot of dogs get called a cur for the wrong reason,fatigue ,sick ,poor condition,and under wght. all these play a major role in the CUR factor.when you can tel the diff, you are on your way to being good dog man.most dogmen don't see it "EVER" .here are some famous words of idiots ."IF HE CAN STAND ,HE CAN SCRATCH."
well that is not always true .eamples EXTREME FATIGUE ,BABESIA ,WRONG WGHT.
Here are the ways to fix it .Learn what you are doing ,get some common sense ,unfortunately is not to common.

[Officially Retired]

a lot of dogs get called a cur for the wrong reason,fatigue ,sick ,poor condition,and under wght. all these play a major role in the CUR factor.when you can tel the diff, you are on your way to being good dog man.most dogmen don't see it "EVER" .here are some famous words of idiots ."IF HE CAN STAND ,HE CAN SCRATCH."
well that is not always true .eamples EXTREME FATIGUE ,BABESIA ,WRONG WGHT.
Here are the ways to fix it .Learn what you are doing ,get some common sense ,unfortunately is not to common.

To a large degree, I agree with you Sonny.

These dogs have a tough row to hoe, and it only makes sense to allow them to have the best chance of "digging deep" by having them 1) healthy, 2) at their best weight, and 3) in top condition.

Fatigue is one thing that can really make a dog quit, and it takes a dogman to know the difference between a dog quitting "winded" and a dog being so exhausted and shocky he does not know where he is.

All of these are judgement calls, and (unfortunately) many don't have very good judgement. Just because a dog "can stand" doesn't mean he knows where he is. Just because "5 minutes later" a dog can recognize what is in front of him doesn't mean he could at the moment of release.

I have said many times before that, if you throw any man in a huge vat of water, that man will be forced to tread-water-and-tread-water-and-tread-water ... but at some point he simply will not be able to tread water anymore ... and so he will drown. And the same is true of these dogs and fighting: no animal can physically go on-and-on-and-on forever. At some point they're going to collapse. This doesn't make them "curs" (cowards); it means they have simply run out of gas.

Jack

[waccamaw]

i have always said a good dog in the hands of a IDIOT is a doomed dog