Raw Feeding Fact or Myth?

[Limey Kennels]

Guys FWIW.
im not going to debate ore try to convert people. ore get side trackt over minor diferenses ore imperfections in my layout. . i just simply put it as i see it and the way i have been educated as a dogman and tru the profesional greyhound racing frinds who i have.. these boys dont partisiopate in the minors. these guys dont feed crap, and feed human grade meat in there kibble diets . there are plenty of aczamples every week every day everywhere. where people suffer ore died from infected HUMAN grade meats.....""when cookt""
not to mention the BSE and crutsfeld jacob deseases coming from heuman grade meats..often diognosed as parkson diseas!!!!!!! .
Today there isend a greyhound in the majors running on meat alone diet wich takes the bacon home . that counts for someting
Do with the info wat you like fill in your own teories ore toughts about it. fact is these points are facts.. you can twist and turn around it come up with all sorts of teories to prove other wize, But we all know that in teory we can hang a elephant over clif holding on on a single leaf of gras!! ..
i see it as a stimulanse for others to debate, and show that raw feeding ISSEND better then the myth that is created bij those who only read and talk and feed on the chain and advice there belives from there point of view only . and set aside the stuff they simply dont know ore ignore.. funny is that nearly all the old timers in the past claim that with the coming of the quality drij food kibble companies, the dogs the sport and performace took a quantem leap forward. and these guys where the gods of composing raw meat diets for a long time . befor some of us where even born .....

[Officially Retired]

R2L i know my spelling su.ks, but please read, it again . you wil see that when dry food is soakt that al the things your used to see your dog doing fed on raw is the same. and yes heating up the meat prossest for kibble breaks douwn the hormons and the antibiotics. wich is NOT the case when feeding raw!!!.
The douwnside of the heating up prosses of the meat used in kibble is that it also partly distrois the amino acids,wichs is where the skin and coat problems come from... wich not happens when feeding raw!!!.
Now you CAN ad amino acids to dry kibbel and soak it to get the same % of water in your dry food!!.
But you CANT get the anitibiotics and hormon levels out of the raw meat . HENS i feed the dry food kibble the way it SHOULD be done as i discribed it.. and stay away from feeding raw..
Just for you to know govermends all over the world INCLUDING the usa are dealing with a major problem in the human spiecies being almost imume to antibiotis DUE to the high levels being used in the Bio industry , wich makes up 80% of your usa and european protien base food!!.
Now our food is Kookt baked and heated up and stil we have major problem getting to much antibiotic and hormon levels in our systems !!. Can you imagion how much of that shit stacks up in our dogs when fed raw!!!??....
now unles you are 100% sure of your raw protien sours, then il say ok go for it . but i dont belive anybody with more then 4 ore 5 dogs would spend the money time and energy on mega green hippy protien raised on 100% natural foods and flafours. its simply to ecspensif ..not even old Jack is feeding that.looking at his videos.....
please do not forget that iven free roaming animals bred raised for that perpose are fed kibble themselfs in winter time!. and all the bio industri food is bassed on prossest animal waist . YEP thats right How good is that when the cow sheep chiken you ore your dogs eat is being fed of the waist protien of those animals..............And themselfs
Conclusion is. the chicken and meat you feed to your dogs are themselfs fed with prossest animal protien.!!! as with dry kibble .............

This is laughable.

The two biggest components of protein in muscle meat are 1) water and 2) amino acids.

The very fact that kibble LACKS the amino acids and water of raw muscle meat is prima facie *proof* that it is an inferior protein source to raw meat

And then to sit here and say, "Just add water and add back amino acids back to your kibble," to make it "as good as" raw is almost insane. First of all, adding water and amino acids back to kibble is NOT the same as natural raw meat ... and second of all, trying to do something "extra" with the kibble is an admission in-and-of-itself that it is LACKING as a food source ... again, precisely because the two most important constituents of protein (amino acids and water) have been destroyed in the kibbling process.

Hell, even if you could magically add "this and that" to kibble to make it "as good as raw" again, WHY THE FOGGG should anyone go through all of that bullshit, when they can just feed raw to begin with?

If you're worried about bacteria, just take a big cauldron and boil the chicken for a bit. Or feed it frozen. Bacteria problem solved, and you will still be feeding a helluva lot better than kibble

Jack

[R2L]

That is very true Jack, but you forget one part of what he wrote about. That's the steroids and antibiotics being baked out in kibbles?

You have been feeding and raising dogs on raw for a long time, did you ever notice anything negative what could have been caused by this?

Maybe its a little paranoia from my side because i raised just 1 dog completely on raw and he is the most muscled and strongest of all my dogs. Though he is also the one who runs hot the fastest.

[Limey Kennels]

Jack one thing is very clear im not laufebel nor do i consider you that!!..
And as i stated, In my posts its PARTLY distroid and the dogs who geneticly CANT prosses it due to a lack of amino assids are dogs that have a problem!!they simplye need MORE amino acids. wich is 1 on every 100 dogs!!??..
and yes if water is used to soak KIBBLE as the beter brands advice (where the PET food brands only advice to have SUFFISIEND water availeble) then the same densety as raw meat has been reachst between 60 and 75%.
IF you partily boil/ KOOK the meat ore slightly as you said, then your doing the same thing as FOOD kibble companyes!! who kook there protien sours( not al of them there are companies that use diferend methods where they preserve the amino acids but thats not alot of them.).. being it compleatly.

And the biggest worries arend the bacteria problem ,its the antibiotics and hormon levels being used to make money and that other shit in the meat. that are the most dangeres..not to mention the inconsistensy of a wel balansed diet for fastlane performance.
Coming back at prossest protien voor dogs and lets used the human(same with greyhounds as they use nearly the same suplemends) aczample then we must realize that a fresh diet for major atleaths ranging from olympick rowers to body builders, that they CANT eat enoughf BULK to provied there systems with the nutrition they need.without puting to much strain on there systems ....
Prossest protien powder vitamins ecetera everyting they need wil make them able to compeat.. to get the most out of there LOW bulk PRE diguested energy sourses, not to mention. the doping that must be used when they are lacking natural talend and hybrid viger.

And make no mistake my son has plenty of raw feeders with the same ore other problems! ore who are short on minerals ore get to many ..!especialy the ones who feed lots of chiken in there raw diets they lack lots of iron, wich is more availeble in red meat .
chek the text douwn below. do a simpel Google sirtch and read the stuff plenty a raw feeder is evoing to read!! ore refusing to belive.
Can put about 20/50 other links in there ranging from beef to whatever raw protien sours your feeding. Look the tought about it is galand and good. but meat products today need to be kookt baked ore heated up in some form to kill of all the CRAP that is put in there bij the industry that provide us with it. wich brings me to the folowing conclusion i RATHER AD ecstra amino acids to my drij kibble for dogs THAT need it. knowing that al that shit that has been put into the raw meats we buy is killed of . being sure there is a 80% less chanse of efecting my dogs in the long runn and generations to come!!. as that crap WILL have a influense on there genetic make up.. Hensh dogs kats mice are used in ecsperiments as there generations follow up 7 times a year in mice teorecticly twice a year in kats and dogs .. Now im sure about you and myself being in there for the long runn, as we alredy proven to. and yes there is shit in drij kibbleas wellike artifisial flaufores and presirvers however just like in QUALITY meats products sirved in michelin * quality resturants your paying TOP$$ for those meat products ( why the hell you thing rich people live longer +- 10 years longer, simply because they can aford the good stuf!!). as what you pay for natural white E being used to presirve the drij dog food kibble... NOW i know out of ecspeariense that every single one of the raw feeders on this forum buys the cheapest CRAP to feed there dogs raw including you Jack, As most do with crap produced drij kibble.. but at least that crap hase been kookt to pieces .

You realy whant to do your dogs good and hang on to the raw feeding . go live in the woods buy a great hunting rifle and shoot your own wild roaming buffelow/ Bison dear moose ore whatever skin those beasts proses the meat in portiens ad natural non genetic enhansed veggies wich are NOT sprayd with toxic poison to kill of parasites. freeze al that stuf wel below - 30* for weeks to kill of the worms parasites. and then feed your dogs raw. then i do belive that your doing what YOU think is better for our animals.. If not then please kook the crap out of everyting and ad the good stuf sfther kooking it! that is killed of during that prosses . and your better of.. (We cant even Eat a fricking Appel without washing it to get the poision of thats been used) but waight did i just discribed a premedium qualitij dry kibble!!

(NaturalNews) After years of sweeping the issue under the rug and hoping no one would notice, the FDA has now finally admitted that chicken meat sold in the USA contains arsenic, a cancer-causing toxic chemical that's fatal in high doses. But the real story is where this arsenic comes from: It's added to the chicken feed on purpose!

Even worse, the FDA says its own research shows that the arsenic added to the chicken feed ends up in the chicken meat where it is consumed by humans. So for the last sixty years, American consumers who eat conventional chicken have been swallowing arsenic, a known cancer-causing chemical.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/032659_ar...#ixzz2JdPHSa6y

FDA finally admits chicken meat contains cancer-causing arsenic (but keep eating it, yo!)

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/032659_ar...#ixzz2JdOxmlhH


Until this new study, both the poultry industry and the FDA denied that arsenic fed to chickens ended up in their meat. The fairytale excuse story we've all been fed for sixty years is that "the arsenic is excreted in the chicken feces." There's no scientific basis for making such a claim... it's just what the poultry industry wanted everybody to believe.

But now the evidence is so undeniable that the manufacturer of the chicken feed product known as Roxarsone has decided to pull the product off the shelves (http://www.grist.org/food-safety/201...supermarket-ch...). And what's the name of this manufacturer that has been putting arsenic in the chicken feed for all these years? Pfizer, of course -- the very same company that makes vaccines containing chemical adjuvants that are injected into children.

Technically, the company making the Roxarsone chicken feed is a subsidiary of Pfizer, called Alpharma LLC. Even though Alpharma now has agreed to pull this toxic feed chemical off the shelves in the United States, it says it won't necessarily remove it from feed products in other countries unless it is forced by regulators to do so. As reported by AP:

"Scott Brown of Pfizer Animal Health's Veterinary Medicine Research and Development division said the company also sells the ingredient in about a dozen other countries. He said Pfizer is reaching out to regulatory authorities in those countries and will decide whether to sell it on an individual basis." (http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...8-fda-chicken-...)


Arsenic? Eat more!
But even as its arsenic-containing product is pulled off the shelves, the FDA continues its campaign of denial, claiming arsenic in chickens is at such a low level that it's still safe to eat. This is even as the FDA says arsenic is a carcinogen, meaning it increases the risk of cancer.

The National Chicken Council agrees with the FDA. In a statement issued in response to the news that Roxarsone would be pulled from feed store shelves, it stated, "Chicken is safe to eat" even while admitting arsenic was used in many flocks grown and sold as chicken meat in the United States.

What's astonishing about all this is that the FDA tells consumers it's safe to eat cancer-causing arsenic but it's dangerous to drink elderberry juice! The FDA recently conducted an armed raid in an elderberry juice manufacturer, accusing it of the "crime" of selling "unapproved drugs." (http://www.naturalnews.com/032631_el..._FDA_raid.html) Which drugs would those be? The elderberry juice, explains the FDA. You see, the elderberry juice magically becomes a "drug" if you tell people how it can help support good health.

The FDA has also gone after dozens of other companies for selling natural herbal products or nutritional products that enhance and support health. Plus, it's waging a war on raw milk which it says is dangerous. So now in America, we have a food and drug regulatory agency that says it's okay to eat arsenic, but dangerous to drink elderberry juice or raw milk.

Eat more poison, in other words, but don't consume any healing foods. That's the FDA, killing off Americans one meal at a time while protecting the profits of the very companies that are poisoning us with their deadly ingredients.

Oh, by the way, here's another sweet little disturbing fact you probably didn't know about hamburgers and conventional beef: Chicken litter containing arsenic is fed to cows in factory beef operations. So the arsenic that's pooped out by the chickens gets consumed and concentrated in the tissues of cows, which is then ground into hamburger to be consumed by the clueless masses who don't even know they're eating second-hand chicken sh*t. (http://www.naturalnews.com/027414_ch...ease_cows.html)

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/032659_ar...#ixzz2JdPAhzOI

[Limey Kennels]

That is very true Jack, but you forget one part of what he wrote about. That's the steroids and antibiotics being baked out in kibbles?

You have been feeding and raising dogs on raw for a long time, did you ever notice anything negative what could have been caused by this?

Maybe its a little paranoia from my side because i raised just 1 dog completely on raw and he is the most muscled and strongest of all my dogs. Though he is also the one who runs hot the fastest.

R2L Lack of carb /fats and not the right balansed diet consirning minerals vitamins wich you need in order to compeat... Dogs fed om raw look spot on when on the chain. caried alot due to the antibiotics and hormone levels..THEY umongst cattle show you a wrong sense /state of health. but as soon as you realy put presure on them al the imbalanse risses to the sirfes. Hesnh the greyhound people only used raw meat as a protien sours the drij kibbel contens/ingriedienses thuse the rest

[R2L]

I think iv been feeding a good balanced complete raw feed to the dog. Complete raw feed companies can balance out their meals just as fine as dry feed producers can. If you dont know exactly what you;re doing you should not be putting together your own meal. My only concern are the hormones in them, nobody wants to their do be over muscled or running hot fast.

[Limey Kennels]

Question WHO controls the raw food companies!?? and ore what is in it. heard several sourses claim its the same stuf they use to make drij kibble of. justy un prossest!!. .. so it is balansed but not prossest to distoi al the crap in it!?!... these companies are ofthen sister companies of regulair drij dogfood companies that jump on the band wagon ,on the sins a couple of years raw feed populairety myth.. its all bisenis pure for the almighty $$... and yes its the same with a crap drij food kibble market where ofthen the bags costs more then what is used inside of them bags. belive me your beter of feeding quality kibble.... cheaper as wel IF you fallow the rulles..

[tasoschatz]

Food industry recycles everything, chicken raise and use including all byproducts is filthy at least, but this is the industry standard about every chiken product, well known and checked by authorities, chickens in cages are fed their own shit, globaly known since ever.
Under no circumstances I will accept that kibble producers, that obviously have at best the same level control as human grade products, lower for me, produce better products than those for human consumption. So, for me, remains to see if really the heat/ cook/ drying procedure used to make kibble lowers significantly hormones and antibiotics levels in the final product compared to raw materials. I mean that, I am not sarcastic, I do not know if this really happens and I would like to know it, even if it is for plain home cooking.
I will not go into the grains used, possibly gmo's etc. Not even will I go into the dl form of aminos used in animals industry compared to the l form for humans.
Kibble mentions a protein proportion of the product or grams or whatever, this includes the grains' protein, maybe they try to improve the lower quality of this protein part by adding aminos, could this be a case? I do not know.
Animal protein is the sum of the individual aminos contained in meat. These aminos exist as individual ones but mostly in chains from two - three aminos to many more. These peptides have different absorption rates and have different functions and benefits. Heat / cooking and every other procedure breaks the amino bonds and as a result you get smaller peptides and more free aminos. This is not nesecarely a good thing, it can produce a lower quality product, faster absorption doesn't equate into better use. Because of these facts, the addition of extra aminos doesn't guarantee real improvement always, again assuming that aminos are destroyed, not just bonds between aminos.
Animals are getting, according to my knowledge, injectable hormones, these products even if they are still in existence in their muscles or fat can not be absorped by the stomach route. It is the estrogens that might build in the animal body, from supplementation of other hormones, as a balance mechanism reaction, that cause problems to humans.
Bodybuilders and athletes supplement on many nutrients including protein, but their primary source is natural food. APBT campaigners do not want dogs with extra muscle, do they? they want the best performing muscle at the lowest possible mass. Olympic athletes do use free form aminos in an effort to immitate hormones action, most of them they do injectable. If you would visit an olympic athlete bedroom you would see an environment more complicated than a pharmacy store, and everything legal, if someone into dogs want to follow these protocols then he/she should search around and find them. Also keep in mind that they are interested in the current performance and not in the long term well beeing. Which brings me to my other point.
How many dogmen are interested if their working dogs will live longer than lets say 8-9 whatever? As long as they are done with shows and they get whatever breedings they want from them, do they have reasons to keep them longer? I am a pet owner and I want my dog to live with me for more than 15 years and in good health, but this is me, people with 10, 20 I do not know how many dogs, do they really want them bad to live for as long as possible after a certain age? Are they willing to spend the extra money, time and effort an elderly dog needs? What I try to say is not that I am a saint while others are cold hearted people, just that men of tradition expect certain things from a dog during his lifetrime and after that, by beeing pure professionals, they are ok to be over with it. So, if you are right about the poisons contained into raw feeeding compared to kibble, an opinion by which I do not agree at least for now, does it really offer an advantage to the "pro's"?

[Officially Retired]

That is very true Jack, but you forget one part of what he wrote about. That's the steroids and antibiotics being baked out in kibbles?
You have been feeding and raising dogs on raw for a long time, did you ever notice anything negative what could have been caused by this?
Maybe its a little paranoia from my side because i raised just 1 dog completely on raw and he is the most muscled and strongest of all my dogs. Though he is also the one who runs hot the fastest.

You can easily buy chicken, etc. without steroids in them.

As for your 1 dog you feed raw, his being short-winded is genetic and has nothing to do with being fed raw (unless you're mis-feeding or leaving something out).

I have fed 60-80 dogs raw, and (like any other yard) some were short-winded and some were long-winded.

Yet ALL OF THEM looked better being fed raw than they did being fed kibble, and (as a whole) they ALL lived longer and stayed looking better longer than did their ancestors whom I fed kibble

[Officially Retired]

Jack one thing is very clear im not laufebel nor do i consider you that!!..
And as i stated, In my posts its PARTLY distroid and the dogs who geneticly CANT prosses it due to a lack of amino assids are dogs that have a problem!!they simplye need MORE amino acids. wich is 1 on every 100 dogs!!??..
and yes if water is used to soak KIBBLE as the beter brands advice (where the PET food brands only advice to have SUFFISIEND water availeble) then the same densety as raw meat has been reachst between 60 and 75%.
IF you partily boil/ KOOK the meat ore slightly as you said, then your doing the same thing as FOOD kibble companyes!! who kook there protien sours( not al of them there are companies that use diferend methods where they preserve the amino acids but thats not alot of them.).. being it compleatly.

My friend, I was not calling "you" laughable, I was calling the idea that kibble is equal to raw flesh laughable ... as well as the idea that "soaking" raw kibble in water, and then adding-back amino acids, will make it "equal" again to raw flesh. It will not.

Your second statement is also false, namely that lightly-cooking meat (while still leaving it MOIST and with most of the amino acids/nutrients intact) is "the same" as cooking meat down to being a bone-dry pellet. It is not the same at all.

To help illustrate the tremendous difference in quality as a food, between kibble and raw (or even lightly-cooked) flesh, all you have to do is consider the fact that you can leave "kibble" in a bag, at room temperature, FOR MONTHS and it will not spoil. Have you asked yourself "why" kibble can be left at room temperature for months? Well, the answer is there is nothing nutritionally valuable left in it, that's why! Look up the term "Biological Availability." The biological availability of any food essentially means its ability to be broken down and digested by the animal that's eating it. The very fact that kibble can just sit there, and sit there, and sit there, and NOT be broken down by molds, bacteria, etc. ... and WILL NOT ROT ... indicates it has almost ZERO biological availability. That is also why dogs shit so much when they eat kibble: most of it is not fully digested.

By contrast, throw a piece of raw chicken (or even cooked chicken) into a paper bag, at room temperature, and IMMEDIATELY it will start rotting and decomposing. In less than one day, your house will stink like death and flies will be everywhere. Why? Because raw (and even lightly-cooked) chicken are extremely biologically available to organisms, which is why they are so much more easily-digested by our dogs, and is also why dogs shit so much less stool when they eat raw: they are able to digest most of it

Jack