Who has used this keep specifically? Results? What winning dogs were kept this way?
Any knowledgeable or experienced posts are appreciated. I am neither for it or against it. It came up in a recent conversation. I use some of the principles but have never worked a dog solely based on the Lemm plan. EWO
IMO, the whole idea of "free conditioning" is counter-intuitive to what a dog actually does in a fight.
Resistance training, with periodic breaks, and periodic all-out efforts, is more in line with the reality of what dogs are actually doing in a match.
A fight is NOT just "pure cardio," with zero resistance; in fact a fight is quite the opposite.
There is another force of equal weight resisting your dog's efforts (and requiring your dog to put up a resistance to), for which muscular conditioning is absolutely needed.
Jack
I knew some guys that used it in my area, some had success with it, others did'NT. I noticed that in some of the hog hunts compared to previous hunts with the same dog, they looked weaker in my opinion. I believe part of it was that at the time a lot of people bought into the free conditioning method and lost focus on strength training and actual endurance work, in previous hunts these guys used a lot of hand walking a little weight pulling and basically tossed a ball back in fourth allowing the dog to open up in sprints and at the same working those fast twitching muscles. I am in no way saying it wasn't a good keep just my observation.
Agreed. I saw one recently and with this free conditioning keep the dog looked weak. I can't say it was followed to the letter, or whether it was applied correctly, but the dog looked weak to me. I saw him in the first and he was a different dog. The first time he won and his keep helped him but the second I feel like he won in spite of the work put in.
I have never personally used it myself, nor have I ever known anyone that did. I watched a lot of the video and listened to the reasons but I just can't see coming in as a 'one trick pony'. I was wondering if anyone had ever used it with any success. EWO
Originally Posted by CA Jack
A friend of mines used this keep for a while, he was down in the South part and thought it would be better Keep to use as opposed when he lived up north. He always had 3 parts of his yard, he ran Jeep/Sorrells and also ran heavy Eli dogs and last part of his yard he used some Snooty stuff that he tested and kept to breed into his other dogs. No lie we talked about this very keep about a month ago, he said the keep was great with his Jeep/Sorrells dogs but he lost all the time with his Eli dogs on this keep. Interesting his Jeep/Sorrells dogs were head dogs who just stayed out front riding the head with minimal contact and his Eli dogs were rough hard punching wrestlers. The keep was all cardio and took the strength from the dogs. I know they say every keep is different for every dog but this was experience of one man who used this keep as his primary for a few years.
Hence, the jenny that let's the dog work on the Hyde as he runs or walks and shakes with a counterweight on the opposite side for resistance
The thing I saw in the Lemm keep from the video. Was if you had one of those wide open crazy to work type dogs. If you used tread mills this could give you a guide line of were the dog was going to break down and start trotting. In other words a way to determine when to stop and walk the dog with out letting the dog burn itself out early in the keep. Even if this method is used for a Cardio work out. One session only in one of the work days. Probably being the first work day in the work day grouping. The rest of the next work days the dog can do the Cat Mill, pulling weights, flirt pole etc. Variety is the spice of life and can keep some dogs from getting bored.
The way a pulling dog is worked is very similar to a Pro boxer. If Cardio is all the Boxer needed for wind, stamina, and endurance, the Boxer would do road work like a long distance runner. Run a lot of miles every day. Most Boxers only run one mile for every round to be fought. Then the rest of the various type work is in the gym. Which includes weight lifting, body bag, timing bag, rope jumping. Pushing and sparring with a sparring partner of a heavier weight. To help strengthen against the weight of the opponent.
There is no doubt, that the Swinging Jenny mentioned by Evolution is the Cat's Meow way to go. I believe it was Jack that mentioned about one hard to beat dog man, that put a certain amount of weight on his dogs or they pulled it (not sure which). Walked them into hard as steel shape.
I had a nice well made Treadmill,just did not like it nor a carpet mill. My extra large round table gave the dog a much better workout than the tread mill and was a close second to my Jenny. Preferred the Jenny/Round table and hand walking with a little weight pulling if needed. But not all this in one day. Cheers
Last edited by CYJ; 02-13-2015 at 07:51 PM.
I wouldn't even say the keep was "great" with the Jeep/Sorrells' dogs ... but rather that the Jeep/Sorrells dogs had a style that "wouldn't get ruined" by that keep.
Even head dogs do better when they have strength put into them: they can be rougher and more physical with their style too ... and control things more decisively and with greater authority.
A dog that relies totally on roughness, with those tools taken away. is just going to be "more obviously" malconditioned than a dog that has other tools to draw on ... but is still put in weaker shape than he could be.
Jack
Allow me to quote:
"I have a perfect Robert Lemm treadmill, excellent. I haven't used it in 10 years. Nothing beats the jenny for conditioning. I used to do flirtpole and springpole work, but not so much anymore. I believe in strength-conditioning too. I'll hook a chain to a dog's harness on certain days when they're running the jenny so they can get some weight resistance training. Anyone who doesn't believe in strength training isn't winning consistently in top competition today."
~ Hardcore Mike
Jack
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