How does anyone find their dogs correct weight? Ive heard you need to strip them. What do you all think?
How does anyone find their dogs correct weight? Ive heard you need to strip them. What do you all think?
This is mr. crenshaw keep also showing hwo to find his correct weight
To begin with you must have a healthy dog. This is a 12 week keep. The first 4 weeks I
walk the dog 10 miles per day. I walk him everyday for these 4 weeks and feed one
hour after the walk. If the show is to begin at 8:00 p.m. then I walk my dog from 5
p.m. to 8 p.m. This 4 weeks is to pre condition the dog and get him close to weight. It is
very important to get all gut or internal fat out of him. If you can't get the fat out from
his intestines, heart, lungs, and liver, you can't put him in shape.
For the first 4 weeks I feed the following:
1. 1 cup pro plan (chicken and rice) adult formula
2. 1 cup Kellogg's All-Bran
3. 1 or 2 cloves chopped garlic
4. 1 tablespoon chopped spinach
5. 2 cups chicken broth
6. 1 cup cooked chicken
Place items1-2-3-4 in feed pan. Heat items 5-6 (pour over 1-2-3-4)
To make the chicken and broth I place 15 chicken thighs in a 3 gallon stock pot and fill
with water. Cook until tender and place in refrigerator when cool.
WEEK 5:
The walk is still 10 miles (5p.m. to 8p.m). Immediately after the walk, while he is still
warmed up, he gets 5 minutes on the treadmill. When he comes off mill, walk him 30
minutes to cool down. Then rub him down good and put him in his quarters. Prepare
his food an feed him one hour after he comes off the mill. (If your dog is losing
excessive weight, feed more dog food). If he is dehydrated, increase liquid. However, if
he is losing too much weight it is possible you are going at the wrong weight. He should
not have water between mill and feed time. But when you feed him, place at least 1/2
gallon clean water where he has access to it. The water should be changed and the
container cleaned daily. I read once where someone said the green stuff in water won't
hurt the dog.....But you give him one bucket of clean and one green with algae and see
which one he drinks from!!!!!!!!!
Continue each day of week 5 the same. With only 5 minutes mill work, it shouldn't be
necessary to rest him this week. But this keep is only a guide. You have to use common
sense. If the dog is tired or doesn't feel good,"Rest Him".
WEEK 6:
Walk 10 miles (5p.m-8p.m)
10 minutes on mill
Rub down
Everything stays the same (If the dog loses weight, add additional dog food). Everything
else stays the same. Be sure to replace water.
WEEK 7:
Walk 10 miles (5pm-8pm)
20 minutes on mill
Rub Down
Everything else same except feed:
With 10 miles walk, 20 minutes on mill, and 30 minutes to cool down, the dog should
be drying out some. At this time I leave all ingredients the same except liquid and
chicken. I put 3 whole chicken thighs (including skin) with bone removed. Broth: add 1
ounce per pound body weight (40 pound dogs gets 40 ounces broth daily). Wait one
hour after mill and feed. Put water so he can drink.
WEEK 8:
Walk Same 10 miles (5pm-8pm)
Mill 15 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Mill 15 minutes
Walk 30 minutes to cool down, Rub down, feed on hour after mill, and replace water.
WEEK 9:
Walk 10 miles (5p.m-8p.m)
Mill 20 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Mill 20 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Rub down
Feed on hour after mill
REPLACE WATER
WEEK 10:
Walk 10 miles (5p.m-8p.m)
Mill 30 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Mill 30 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Rub down
Feed on hour after mill
WATER
WEEK 11:
SUNDAY
Begin 10 mile walk at 4 p.m. Finish walk at 7p.m
Mill 30 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Mill 30 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Mill 30 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Rub down
Feed at 10:30. WATER!!!!!!!!!
MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY=SAME AS SUNDAY
FRIDAY
Walk 5 miles (ending at 8p.m)
Mill 20 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Mill 20 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Rub down
Feed one hour after mill (10:10), WATER!!!!!!!!!!
SATURDAY:
Walk 5 miles
Mill 15 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Mill 15 minutes
Rub down
Feed one hour after mill (10:10p.m) WATER!!!!!!!
WEEK 12:
SUNDAY:
Walk 5 miles ending at 8p.m
Mill 10 minutes
Walk 30 minutes
Mill 10 minutes
Rub down
Feed one hour after mill (9:50p.m) WATER!!!!!!!
MONDAY:
Walk one hour ending at 8p.m
Mill 10 minutes
Walk 30 minutes Rub down
Feed one hour after mill (9:10pm.) WATER!!!!!
TUESDAY:
Today I put the dog in a kennel in my bedroom, keep the room cool and quiet. I take
him out early in the morning for a good walk (about 30-45 minutes). Put him up until
noon and take him for another 30-45 minute walk.
4-pm--walk for one hour
5pm-- feed, put back in kennel
9pm-- walk just long enough for him to empty or urinate. Put in kennel until morning. I
offer him water after each walk before he goes back in the kennel.
WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAY==SAME AS TUESDAY
FRIDAY:
I made sure to arrive at the area of the show at least 30 (THIRTY) hours before
showtime so I could feed the last meal there and to insure my dog got plenty of rest.
8pm. 2cc Dex 2mg-ml. Put under skin, NOT muscle.
SATURDAY:
6am. 5cc Dex under skin
ALL THIS IS A GUIDE IF THE SHOW IS AT 8PM SATURDAY
I never feed but once daily. This will keep your dog regular and insure he is empty at
show time. Next to getting the gut fat out of him, this is the most important: making
sure he is empty at show time. He will get hot an week if he has anything in his
stomach.
To make weight, I use broth without any solids. I strain chicken broth through cheese
cloth and save one pint. You can give this to him up to 3 hours before show time and it
will not do any harm.
And last, this is only a guide. You have to use common sense to apply with any success.
Example:
If the dog loses weight, feed more
If he gains weight, work more or feed less
if he is tired, rest him
if you are lazy and don't work your dog, he won't be in shape
if he is dry, add more broth
if his is too wet, decrease broth
Don't push him too fast. Work according to schedule in pre-keep to prepare him for
work.
Not many people have the ability to condition
I once read an article that Earl Tudor wrote which said he doubted it there was 5 men
in the world that knew how to find a dog's weight, get the gut fat out, and knew how to
condition him after he got the fat out.
I WILL GO ONE STEP FURTHER AND SAY:
If there are 3 today that know this and are not too LAZY to put him in shape, I do not
know them.
GOOD LUCK
IT'S HARD WORK AND TAKES A LOT OF TIME
ow to find his correct weight
Originally Posted by BME
I can't believe I missed this question ... so my apologies for the delay in response!
First of all, every single match I lost was because I failed to get the weight right:
- I matched Truman at 55, but he came in at 52;[/*:m:2manb3kw]
- I hooked Mack at 42 but he really was a 40;[/*:m:2manb3kw]
- I hooked Poncho at 45.5, but he really was a 47-48 (which I knew), but I thought I could get away with 45.5 ... but instead he came in at 44[/*:m:2manb3kw]
The last match I had was over 15 years ago, and I effed-up so bad when I was doing these dogs, this might have you wondering what in the hell qualifies "me" to speak with any kind of authority on the subject of getting the weight right. Fair question!
Well, let us just say that, though I haven't actually matched any dogs since then, I have not been living in a plastic bottle all through this time either. Back then, the only "top dogmen" I knew weren't in my corner, they were my competition. Since that time, I have made acquaintances with many top dogmen all over the world, the most important of whom was a man who has been doing dogs since the mid-60s and who has owned/co-owned (or gone into) more all-time great Champions and Grand Champions than virtually any other dogman alive. I am talking about Gr Ch Melonhead 17xW (lost to him in 2:40 with Gr Ch Dooley 8x) Gr Ch Tornado 10xW (part of the A-Team), Gr Ch Robert T 9x (part of the A Team), Gr Ch Sampson 5xW (lost to him with Gr Ch Zinc 9xW), Gr Ch Outlaw 7xW (lost to him in 2:00 with a Champion), Gr Ch Milo 5xW, Gr Ch Junior 6xW, Gr Ch Leroy (6xW), Ch Robert T Jr (stopped four 4xWs from making Gr Ch with him), etc., etc. So, let's just say the guy has been around some good dogs
Well, I stayed on one of his properties for 4 years, and when I say this guy is "active" I mean active ... like he did dogs damned near every weekend, and like I said he has been doing dogs like that for over 40 years. And one thing this man has learned is how to pick a dog's weight, and he taught me pretty much the best way to do it ... and that is essentially handwalking them down to it.
However, with that said, I am going to throw a couple of flies in the ointment: 1) you MUST have experience seeing dogs "at their best weight" in order to develop an eye for it, and 2) different dogs have different levels of tolerance to losing weight; in other words some dogs can be pulled rail-thin and still be strong, while others need to keep a little weight on them. You simply need the experience actually seeing dogs get pulled down to their best weight, and you have to actually know the dog in question (his style, strengths/weaknesses) in order to perform that judgment call.
In the same way that no "book" can teach you how to surf (you simply have to get on the board and try it--and you WILL fall), no book or "post" can give you the eye of experience in calling a dog's weight. Even if I exactly state the procedure, you still need to do it in order to develop your own bearings, in exactly the same was as a surfer (even if he reads all about the best techniques) still has to actually go out there and do it in order to become a good surfer.
So, with that preamble, I can tell you that as you draw your dog down in weight, the main thing to make sure you NEVER do is to let him lose any mass in either his neck or his back end. As the old man told me, "Jack, if you lose your neck you lose your dog ... if you lose your ass end, you lose your dog." In other words, dogs do all of their fighting and biting with their necks and head muscles, and so if you draw a dog down so fine you lose his neck/head mass/strength, you've blown it. Even hold-out artists use their neck strength to hold-out a dog, so if you take that from them, you ruin them. (In fact, that is exactly what I did with Poncho, took away both his neck and his ass-end strength, and he couldn't hold-out Leonard at 44 lb like he could hold-out a dog at 48 lb. At 48 lb you could never get your mouth on Poncho; at 44 lb, he was already losing his ass-end and falling "sitting" because his backend was so weakened at that low weight.)
Anyway, what I learned from the old man was that the dogs "ribs" don't matter, his "spine" doesn't matter ... the only thing that you should be watching for are his NECK (head) and his ASS-END ... and, while all other aspects of the dog can shrink, you never want the neck or ass-end to lose any muscle mass at all ... for, as he said in his thick southern accent, "If you do, you lose your dog."
One final thing to mention is TRAVELING. What I learned the hard way with Poncho is, never "leave your home" with your dog at his best weight ... because, by the time you get to your destination (especially if it's a 6 hour trip), your dog will lose weight! All of these things take professionalism and experience to learn, which is why it really is a good idea to get with a really good, successful dogman for mentorship.
Books (or reading) can't teach you everything. My book is the best APBT book on the planet. It has stuff in there that even these old timers don't know. The old man I told you about has absolutely no knowledge of nutrition, nor even what most of these new drugs can do. But what he DOES have is a helluvan eye for a bulldog ... and the ability to judge its best weight ... and these things canNOT be taught in a book; they must be gained by experience.
Hope this helps,
Jack
.
CH MELONHEAD (17XW)(1XL)
WTF, is this real, where they contracted??????????
Are you kidding me?
Meaddor's Gr Ch Melonhead is a legend and arguably the winningest pit dog in the history of the sport. Gr Ch Tornado was the winningest bitch in the history of the sport. Rebel Kennels' Gr Ch Sampson was a 5xW, 5xBIS while Zinc 9xW was considered an unbeatable finisher in the guts. Robert T and T Junior were two of the best head dogs of all time.
The dogs I mentioned are nothing but the "realest" dogs that have ever lived, making most so-called Champions and Grand Champions today look like bushleague chumps by comparison, and the old man I am referring to either owned these great dogs, co-owned them, or he went into them with equal-caliber dogs.
Jack
.
Walking your dog down to his proper weight is one way to do it. You can use an electric treadmill or a slatmill to do the same thing if you have the time and willingness to do what it takes to get those dogs there.
Another thing a person should keep in mind is the physical strength of their dog while they're going down in weight. It's not as easy to determine as one might think if they're not accustomed to noticing such tiny degrees of difference. The actions of the dog are another indicator if you've pulled a dog below his best possible weight.
Without a doubt, choosing the correct weight for a dog is, by far, the hardest thing you will have to learn to do. Working a dog requires dedication and knowledge. Calling the correct weight requires knowledge, but it also calls for a skilled feeling and intuitiveness that a lot of people simply never develop irregardless of their time with dogs.
The old man didn't like mills as well, for several reasons, one of which was (as you mention in your second paragraph) feeling the dog's strength is impossible on a mill. How a dog walks, how hard it pulls, its alertness (or staleness) all these things not only can be seen better walking the dog, but felt better via the connection between him and you through a leash on a walk.
Agreed.
Jack
.
Below is just something I had on my PC...
DETERMINING THE PIT WEIGHT OF YOUR DOG
You’ ve waited all these years. Your puppy has grown into adulthood and he’s been tried and you think he’s a good prospect. Or maybe you ‘ ve purchased a schooled dog and you’ re trying to hook him up. What next?
Stop! Before you go any further, it’s time to evaluate the pit weight of your dog. For some people this part of the game is a breeze. For others it’s pure drudgery. I ‘ve talked to many a good dog man about their way of doing it and nobody seems to explain their answer the same. Some judge by putting their dog through a two week keep and finding out that way. Still others will just guess and hope and they do it right. Then there are those “smart allecks” wh o just seem to know.
So what is the best way? I’m not so pompous as to tell you that my way is the best. What I am goint to do is offer you some guidelines that may help you. It really doesn’t take a superman, a rocket scientist, or a witch doctor to put a dog in tip top shape. With some hard work you can be as good as conditioner as anyone.
Now that you have taken Fido to your vet to make sure he has a clean bill of health, your’e ready to begin his work program. You’ re going top do 5 basic things:
1. Build strength for your dog.
2. Build wind for your dog.
3. Build endurance for your dog.
4. Know the pit weight of your dog.
5. Learn how to put one in tip top shape.
If this is your first time to attempt at guessing the pit weight of your dog, you may want to ask for some help. It’s best to keep accurate records of your dogs which includes bi- weekly or monthly weighing. Chart t he weight and you will see what the actual chain weight of your dog is.
I consider a good chain weight as one where your dog is neither slim (ribs and bones showing) nor too fat. I call it “slick”. If you are aware of the chain weight of your dog, then the guidelines below will offer you some help. I WANT TO SAY HERE AND NOW THAT THE BELOW WEIGHTS ARE NOT CHISELED IN STONE. They are guidelines only. So read on and hopefully you’ll get some valuable information.
CHAIN WT. 30 PIT WT. 26-38 CHAIN WT. 42 PIT WT. 36-39
CHAIN WT. 31 PIT WT. 27-29 CHAIN WT. 43 PIT WT. 37-40
CHAIN WT. 32 PIT WT. 28-30 CHAIN WT. 44 PIT WT. 38-41
CHAIN WT. 33 PIT WT. 29-31 CHAIN WT. 45 PIT WT. 39-41
CHAIN WT. 34 PIT WT. 30-32 CHAIN WT. 46 PIT WT. 40-42
CHAIN WT. 35 PIT WT. 31-33 CHAIN WT. 47 PIT WT. 41-43
CHAIN WT. 36 PIT WT. 32-34 CHAIN WT. 48 PIT WT. 42-44
CHAIN WT. 37 PIT WT. 33-35 CHAIN WT. 49 PIT WT. 43-45
CHAIN WT. 38 PIT WT. 34-36 CHAIN WT. 50 PIT WT. 44-46
CHAIN WT. 39 PIT WT. 35-37 CHAIN WT. 51 PIT WT. 45-47
CHAIN WT. 40 PIT WT. 36-38 CHAIN WT. 52 PIT WT. 45-48
CHAIN WT. 41 PIT WT. 36-39 CHAIN WT. 53 PIT WT. 46-49
CHAIN WT. 54 PIT WT. 47-50 CHAIN WT. 58 PIT WT. 51-54
CHAIN WT. 55 PIT WT. 48-51 CHAIN WT. 59 PIT WT. 52-54
CHAIN WT. 56 PIT WT. 49-52 CHAIN WT. 60 PIT WT. 53-55
CHAIN WT. 57 PIT WT. 50-53
I realize that is not set in stone and there are varying factors which will help you determine pit weight. Lots depend on the build of your dog, his height, and bone structure.
Notice if you have a chain weight dog of 50 pounds, his pit weight should be somewhere between 44-46 pounds. If it’s your first time out, I would opt for the higher weight. If it’s extremely hot, you may opt for the lower weight. I always fought my dogs a little heavy so they’d have something left over after the fight. And remember, as your dog grows older, most likely his weight will increase. I’ve seen dogs that fought at 36 pounds at two years old, fight at 38-441 pounds when 6. If you fight your dog at 46 pounds and he’s most likely a natural 45 pounder , you may be at a slight disadvantage early in the match. But after the fight has gone on anywhere from 30 minutes to 1 hour, your dog will be at his NATURAL weight. Then you’ll be right on the money.
There are other factors which include humidity, altitude, sunlight or shade, that determine the best weight of your dog. If guessing, I have always said that it’s best to guess on the upper end than the lower end. My mentor Don Divine always put his down a little heavy and his percentage of wins is remarkable. Consider the fact that he trained race horses and ran them a little heavy, too. How many times have you heard a man say, “he bit so much harder in his rolls?” Sure he did! He was hydrated and strong. So please look at the above chart and hopefully you’ll get some idea as to what weight your dog will go.
Don Carter . .. ...
He is correct in that you can't feel that on the mill. When I'm using either mill for that process, I always make sure I walk the dog before he is to use the mill. That way I'm able to gauge his strength (along with the other things mentioned), or possible lack thereof, to make a determination on whether I've hit that particular spot or not. The mill is only a way to speed up the process of determining the weight.
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