Yes, only a clean 5xW should be Gr Ch.
No, if a dog wins 5x he has earned his title of a GRAND Champion (something beyond a mere 3xW),
A discussion developed here: http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...CH-Panthro-4XW Fair enough to respect the dog and owner in matter and continue here.
Do you think a dog which loses or has lost a game should still carry the name GR CH, and what about a draw?
found them..
european results for draw game
I don't think it should really make a difference. No other sport doesn't go by this method for any title. If I lose game for #3 and win 3 more after that, I think a dog should still have the right to be GrCh, the dog still earned it. JMO
R2L, I took the administrative liberty of adding a poll to your thread, I hope you don't mind
I think this is a great subject for debate, and of course my own opinion is that any dog that wins 5x in the pit is a GRAND Champion.
As MTK pointed out, the majority of the fraternity are following the beat of Jack Kelly's drum, and believe that any loss is a tarnish on the record, and that such a Grand Champion should be demoted back down to Champion.
I for one think that dogs like Sampson, Melonhead, Robert T, Silver, etc. are in every sense of the term GRAND Champions, having records that actually dwarf virtually all common 5-6x winners, and still deserve to be Grand Champions for their accomplishments.
Thanks for the reference poll,
Jack
I believe the fraternity will continue to follow that beat as long as there remains nobody to act as a sanctioning body.
Whether we agree with JK's rule or not, it's set a precedent that's followed by the majority, and unfortunately I can't see that changing anytime soon, unless someone steps in to sanction matches and bestow titles using an improved set of rules, or someone really makes it their business to get the message across to the fraternity just how outdated and unfair it is to strip a dogs hard earned title.
Considering it's a public magazine, I don't believe the online SDJ would be any good to act as a sanctioning body, (who in their right mind would report matches to a public magazine?) but i do think it would make an ideal platform to open the fraternitys eyes and get people to actually think for themselves, instead of simply following.
I agree.Originally Posted by MTK
Again, I agree. It is kinda like the age-old adage, "If you rip open a pillow from a tall building, you will never be able to collect all the feathers."
Agree 3x. However, if the SDJ mag is in a foreign country that allows that sort of thing, I don't see why it couldn't act as a sanctioning body.
I was considering doing something similar to that from this site here, once it gets finished and firmly-established; however, I couldn't do it from the US because of the laws regarding "organizing and promoting."
In that regard, although I am not in cahoots with the people over there, the Japanese have perhaps the most organized and professional dogging that I know of, with everything legal and rigidly standardized, with bona fide sanctioning bodies, mandatory challenges, etc.
I would be curious to learn their take on this subject.
Jack
I have voted for yes actually. A dog won't lose any of his glory when losing his title, its achievements are still there. Dogs like Jack mentioned, these dogs were the best of the best no matter what title they got. Thoug i think gr ch should remain a special title which is a reward for both the dog and his owner. Pera brought Silver when he had been sick and he lost, he brought king to another gr ch when he was almost 9 years old and lost. I think a dog and its trainer go hand in hand more then any other sport and if you want to keep that title, make sure you bring your dog top fit. Incase of a draw when already a gr ch i doubt. But where do you draw the line, 4x L 5x W, should this be rewarded with the highest title? I vot for an extra title in between
What is so "special" about winning 5, and then retiring, versus winning 9 (beating two Gr Chs and 2 Chs along the way) and losing one to a Champion as an old man?
The dog who won 5 is a common animal compared to the dog who wins 9, so why should the dog who wins 5 and retires get a title the other does not get?
In other words, by what logic do you think a 3xW Champion gets to keep his title, if he loses his 4th, but you say a Grand Champion loses his title for losing his 10th?
Jack
I agree with Jack on this one. 3xw is a ch. 5xw is gr.ch.
At the other hand i can see what R2L is saying. If i would breed a bitch to a Gr. Ch. And someone says he is an Ex. Gr. Ch. i would laugh my ass of !
This is true what you're saying
But I guess you can say when you bring a 9 year old animal to match another gr ch in his prime, you dont even care about a title. The dog deserves it more then any other but goes hand in hand with its owner. A dog who retires after winning 5 could be the less dog but thats how it works in the world. Same with money. Some take it and leave it, some lose all trying to double up. I want to say i respect the people who continue, take challenges and end up losing in the end much more. They have the courage and knowledge to go in many matches with 1 dog and will always be the ones with more credibility no matter what title they been given. Think this can be an endless discussion. There will always be "average"(relatively) dogs with a title and good dogs without unless you judge them individual.
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