Anybody have any history on these two lines .
Anybody have any history on these two lines .
Look up Fitzwaters Goldie and then Google Fitzwater Goldie , Dibo crosses .Maybe this will help you.
Pretty well every blood line of note today has a Colby or Lightner or both in the beginning blood line way, way back. This pedigree search engine will go fourteen generations on any dog listed. When you get back to the founding dogs. You will find a Colby dog or more than one somewhere. Even the main Lightner Stud dog , Lightner's Vick had Colby breeding in it.
If V. J. had back then not let so much time pass. Before just trying any out cross dog into his dogs. Gave me a call on what he planned to do. I would have told him to reintroduce a good Colby male and Female dog back into his stock. Preferably the male line first. Everything checked out proceed on as before. Better that way than just introduce another family of dogs that may have little in common with your stock. Our dogs were predominately bred down from the Corvino/ Tudor/Heinzl/Colby dogs. Today showing a strong Dibo and little Colby influence in the 14th generation search.
Here is the kicker. One of Colby's Grand sons that had some of the last Colby stock only lived a hour's drive from V.J. and V.J. still probably today does not know it. Have called him recently but no reply at of yet. Is slow about returning calls. Cheers
Any history on what states they where in ?Originally Posted by CYJ
Plenty of history on the lightner and Colby dogs on the internet. Most of their history is probably detailed on here somewhere if you know how to use google well enough to find it.
I doubt there are that many actual dog men that have any straight bred Colby dogs today. One member on the online pedigree p.m. me. Said he had one young Colby dog named Joseph. He lives in the same State of Massachusetts, the original Colby family lives in. Bought the dog direct from them. Dog's id on, on line peds is 38211.
Plan to bring this pedigree over some time this week if it is not already on this site. Cheers
I know the of the dog your speaking of CJ. The young man that has the Joseph dog is some what new to dogs , anyway about 3yrs back he had a son of the Joseph dog he took back from a friend and he was given the dog away so I contacted him about the male who I believe had quarter Jeep x Redboy out and he brought the male here and he was a beautiful dog, I put him on a empty chain to see how he acted around the other dogs and he acting good. Well I took him off to talk to this young man and finalize the deal, well my son and his friends were coming up the drive and the male went ape shit at them like he was trying to get a dog!! Well need less to stay I declined to take the dog. Any way my plan was to see if the dog was gonna work and possibly cross him into our base stock of blood and figured it s a whole lot cheaper to start with a 17 month old free prospect, the thing with those Colby dogs is the attract a lot of newibes and get them and over night become Colby breeders and the Colby dogs get watered down to show stock more or lees, not saying this is case with the Joseph dogs owner but with the majority. That last decent Colby bred dog I saw was about 14 years ago and eventually pulled up but he made it farther than most. But I do believe if one can find it in true working form it will help a program.
Ditto ragedog10. I would agree 100%. Sad part is a lot of the Colby dogs even when Loposay and Pete Sparks were selling them. These dog breeders were just pushing the Colby name. Some of these younger dog men of today may think Loposay and Sparks checked their dogs out. I seriously doubt that was done on most of it.
Even the founding Colby bitch that Lonzo Pratt used. He got, I believe from Loposay or Orday was considered a cold bitch. Yet you have the Pratt line and Jeep line going strong today bred off some of that same Colby stock. Go figure.
Back in the 70's in Hartsville S.C. there was a man that probably had more Colby dogs than Loposay. Had a large kennel of them. Yet none of the real competitive dog men had any dealings with this person or wanted any of his dogs. Working for the Telephone Company rode by his place many times. Never stopped to check him out. Figured if the other dog men did not want them. Best not bother.
When I referred to using a Colby dog. I also meant one that has shown gaminess. Many older dog breeders, like the Colby family of today. Probably just considered the average Joe out there, as someone just wanting a show dog with the Colby name. Being a younger non competitive generation of the Colby family, selling dogs off the older Colby name. Would prefer to play it safe.
A really good dog man, they could trust may get a different breeding off something hopefully checked out. Of course that is a lot of assuming on my part. I was really talking around a time period of say 25 years ago. This particular Colby person being in a State were serious competition is everywhere. Could have stepped up his game. But without visiting and talking would not know for sure.
Today, probably just another pipe dream. Cheers
WILLIAM JOSEPH LIGHTNER
William Joseph Lightner was born in Baltimore, Mary*land in 1877. His grandfa*ther started fighting dogs about 1850 and developed a game strain, never sold a dog. Mr. Lightner’s father and uncles continued winning, never sold a dog. When Mr. Lightner was six years old he used to watch the fights which were held every week in the old ice*house in Baltimore.
About 1894 he entered the prize ring as a fighter himself and made a little money around the east, he also was a singer, he had a wonder*ful deep bass voice. In the late 1890’s he, two sparring partners and 4 dogs started west and fought their way to the Pacific Coast. Most of his fighting was bare nuckle fights for side bets in locals not known to the Police and were finish fights. His hands were all busted up and look like sledge hammers. Some of the fights were on river boats, where they had dog and cock fights at the same time. He speaks of the Illinois River and of course, the Mississippi and Missouri rivers. He made a lot of money in Or*egon, where the lumberjacks had a bully in most every camp and money meant very little. However, Cripple Creek was his favorite for winning as the altitude affected new-comers, both dogs and men. This trip to the Pacific Coast was a highly profitable one, from a money standpoint, as he still had 2 dogs left, and $8,000. However, he was shot thru the shoul*der which ended his own career as a fighter but he still sang in saloons and fought dogs. He stayed with Jim Corbett in San Francisco a while to rest up.
He then started back, ending in Cripple Creek, Colorado, where dog fights were the chief sport. He got more dogs from home - at one time he had 32 bitches.
He got married and Mrs. Light*ner became a fanatic on dog fights. She was a smart operator and match maker and they never lost a fight for 42 years with dogs they backed themselves.After the boom died out in Cripple Creek, they had a lot of dogs and no place to fight, so they sold a few and cut the kennel production.
Mrs. Lightner died suddenly. Her picture in the front room always had a fresh flower in front of it.
Mr. Lightner was the best friend a man ever had, and the worst enemy. He has been a tremendously powerful man, hands like hams, big boned, 200 lbs. and skinny.
William J. Lightner died on Febru*ary 13 ,1959. He and his wife are bur*ied in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
Posted 17th August 2013 by trustno1
Those who years back, bought up all those soft and hard bound books of Pete Sparks and the older blood lines magazines. Will find all this info and much more. About two years ago, I spoke with one of the personnel of the Blood lines magazine. She told me at that time they still had some of the older printed blood lines magazines of the 50's and 60's that still could be bought.
I had all of the Spark's books and about all of the old blood lines magazines from back to the late 40's. Was interesting to read articles written by Tudor/Saddler/Heinzl and other old/ old timer dog men. I gave all of my books etc and dog papers to V.J. He said that really nice red hard bound book Spark's had on the late 60's and 70's dogs was stolen from him. Cheers
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