female died unexpectedly??

[EWO]

I had a female pass recently. She was about six days (Jack, I recounted) or so out from having pups. She looked good, acted good, vet checked as good to go. Her first time so we made arrangements if she needed vet help during the night. All was well.

I came home around 11pm and she was scratching and clawing and cutting circles in the box making her bed ready. I fed her but she only sniffed and went back to getting the box the way she liked it. I assumed she was about to have the pups. I checked on her the next morning about 5am and she was dead. Not too long because she was still warm and had not began to stiffen. I was totally shocked.

I checked her the best I could. She did not have any marks or swelling for any type of bite. She had a couple heavy bloody discharges but nothing to the extreme. She did not to appear to be bloated. She looked pretty much just like she did a few hours before.

The only thing is that her mouth was completely gray. Her gums, tongue, cheeks and under her tongue was all gray. It smelled horrible. There didn't appear to be any type of bite in or around her mouth.


Anyone ever heard or seen anything similar to this? Way weird to me. Sort of quick to happen from 11pm to 5am. EWO

[Officially Retired]

My honest guess is that she died in labor. Sometimes bitches simply have complications with the delivery.

The grey color of her mouth would reflect blood loss down below ... as would the blood down below.

The only way to find out for sure would be to have an autopsy performed on the bitch (which isn't too expensive), and my bet would be there was a pup stuck in the birth canal (or a rupture in the uterus).

I have had several bitches that would have died trying to pass the pups were I not there to assist with the delivery, many of whom required c-sections.

I personally would never let any bitch "just have pups" on her own. I realize many bitches can do so just fine, but I have seen way too many times where they could not. I have also had bitches who delivered just fine once, yet needed a c-section the next time (and even vice versa).

Usually it's been smaller bitches, but one bitch was good-sized, had 9 massive pups in her, and her uterus ruptured, so she could no longer "push" and needed a c-section, then spay.

Had another bitch trying to push her pup out sideways (neither head-first, nor feet-first) ... so there was nothing for me to grab onto ... so she needed a c-section.

Both of these bitches would have died had I just gone to bed and left them out in a pen to deliver their pups. Had plenty of others that would have as well.

So I respectfully disagree with your assessment: 11pm - 5 am is plenty of time for a bitch to die, struggling in labor, especially if there was a rupture and internal bleeding.

I am sorry your bitch died, that is nothing anyone wants to see coming out to their first-time mother. But this story underscores why I personally had every bitch inside my house, and was right there to assist with the delivery, if need be, and/or take her to an emergency vet if need be.

Delivering pups is serious (and potentially life-threatening) business, so what I would recommend coming away with is an understanding of this fact.

Seriously sorry to hear about your loss,

Jack

[bulldoghistorian]

especially if its the first time I stay with them till the end
most I have seen freak out a bit and attack the first pup

my main brood bitch from years ago got accustomed of me doing the last part
she would get the pups till halfway and look at me like , do your thing

[SteelyDan]

I don't know of I've ever slept from 11pm to 5am the week before or week after having pups. Had them whelp at my bed side with a few first timers even. Im kind of a worrier though n can't sleep unless I check them every few hours.

[Officially Retired]

my main brood bitch from years ago got accustomed of me doing the last part
she would get the pups till halfway and look at me like , do your thing

That is how my bitches got to be: would start pushing, look back, and pretty much "expect" me to handle the rest

I don't know of I've ever slept from 11pm to 5am the week before or week after having pups. Had them whelp at my bed side with a few first timers even. Im kind of a worrier though n can't sleep unless I check them every few hours.

Yep. I always take my bitches inside 2 weeks out, so they have plenty of time to get over the anxiety of being brought in, and adapt to the new routine. Recommend all this in my book (& DVDs), in fact.

And, yes again, the crate's in the bedroom, so I know everything that's going on. Pups and mama stay inside until till I am convinced they're all strong and nursing ... and that mama isn't a retard who lays on her pups, etc. ... and I usually wait until their eyes are open before placing them out in an above-ground pen.

It is impossible to be on top of things while mama and puppies are outside. Simply impossible.

Jack

[EWO]

Thanks for the input.

This situation is the reason I have always preferred buying puppies or younger dogs vs. raising litters. I understand the time commitment it takes to do it right and that time is something I seldom have. I work an hour away, a 12 hour shift, monitoring and dictating volatile reaction within a reactor, and then drive back. Staying up with the dogs and maintaining employment has always been a conflict. Recognizing this, I have maybe had 6 or 7 litters since the early 90's. Just not my cup of tea. For me, it has always been easier to buy than to breed.

The gray in the mouth is pretty much due to blood loss, or at least that is what I figured/guessed. I think the smell thru me as much as anything.

Thanks for the insight. EWO

[Mudville]

I don't know of I've ever slept from 11pm to 5am the week before or week after having pups. Had them whelp at my bed side with a few first timers even. Im kind of a worrier though n can't sleep unless I check them every few hours.

Same thing here. Brought her in 2wks before due date, set up whelping box a wk before. She stays in our master bath until they are on their own @ about 4wks old.

Last night was my first good night of sleep since the 1st. It was a whole 5hrs lmao.

[Mudville]

Thanks for the input.

This situation is the reason I have always preferred buying puppies or younger dogs vs. raising litters. I understand the time commitment it takes to do it right and that time is something I seldom have. I work an hour away, a 12 hour shift, monitoring and dictating volatile reaction within a reactor, and then drive back. Staying up with the dogs and maintaining employment has always been a conflict. Recognizing this, I have maybe had 6 or 7 litters since the early 90's. Just not my cup of tea. For me, it has always been easier to buy than to breed.

The gray in the mouth is pretty much due to blood loss, or at least that is what I figured/guessed. I think the smell thru me as much as anything.

Thanks for the insight. EWO

I hear you on the time thing. Though I'd like to add, EVEN if you have the time, things still go wrong. I'm self employed and most of my time is spent here. Even when not tending to the hounds I'm always here. LOL

We had litter drop the night of the 1st. Was 11hrs for 8 pups. Gyp is pushing 9yrs and only her second breeding. All but 2 were born breached and 1 was out the sack when she popped out. We revived and she made it to day 3 before passing. Anyhow just wanted to share that and say things happen, only things we can do is CUR OR SCRATCH ON!

[Mudville]

BTW, would the bad smell be from blood pooling internally. That smell death smellis awful.

[S_B]

Sorry to hear about your bitch and pups EWO. I've had 2 bitches miscarry this year as well it is heartbreaking.

And I to like you do not enjoy breeding dogs.

S_B