? for Jack on stud choice

Jack, I have access to these 2 studs and just would like your opinion on what you believe are the pros and cons of breeding to either. I know you dont know the performance ability of each individual but you know the dogs behind them and their genetic potential to produce certain styles and traits.

Ponchoback II so far is showing to be a decent, defensive head dog. He is very athletic
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=48913

Tank aka Mini Me i have no info on except ped and he has thrown a couple winners
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=42922

It's hard to say.

I would imagine Ponchoback II would be the better physical specimen but I don't have a recent photo.

Minnie Me looks like he's been over-fed shit food all his life. Minnie Me's mama was cold, but her daddy Sun Demon was as game/tough as they come, and stopped A LOT of pretty rough Eli-type dogs on his durability and mouth, while Brick House was an all-around badass bitch (moves + brains + mouth). Minnie's sire Icon is Brick House's brother ... one of the most talented dogs I have bred in my life ... and if there was a dog I had the could have whipped Silverback, Icon was the dog would might have pulled it off by outsmarting and outlasting him. (They weren't the same weight though.)

Ponchoback's daddy, Silverback was a gem of a dog. Total finisher, awesome athlete and specimen. Little D was a relentless, long-winded, very athletic, almost maniacal dog. Never did anything with her, but I would bet my life she'd be game. She carried the same "stamp" of Dirty Diamond and Diamond Girl before her ... BOTH uber-game, uber-game, uber-game bitches ... and Little D was unmistakably cut from the same cloth and bred true. The kind of gameness that would make your skin crawl, and make cold-hearted veterans get goose bumps. Rocko was Sun Demon's brother, a better physical specimen, but I am not sure he was as game or tough, as he never traveled down that road, like Sun Demon did (several times).

I would have to see both stud dogs go, of course, to give you my true opinion ... or at least see them move around in decent shape to get a feel for their athleticism.

But pedigree-wise, there may be a blemish or two in each (as in all peds), but there are mostly rock-solid (and some truly badass) dogs right there in front in BOTH pedigrees.

Jack

If you had to guess what type of dog either of them would throw what would it be?

Everything from my yard will through highly-energetic head dogs ... unless whatever it gets bred to happened to dominate.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum..._01.jpg?230802

Could someone have put up the wrong picture? Geezus!!

That is the right dog in that photo, he was an odd looking pup too --

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...res/252175.jpg

(thanks for the photo help Jack...)

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Originally Posted by S_B

Could someone have put up the wrong picture? Geezus!!

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Minnie Me is getting that build from his granddaddy Sun Demon:

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum..._01.jpg?271344

Sun Demon's other son (and Minnie-Me's brother) Screaming Icon had the same build:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...res/221354.jpg

The difference is, some people feed thick, deep-chested dogs optimal nutrition ... so their thick, ultra-durable dogs look good ... while others OVER-feed their dogs low-budget, cheap shit and turn their dog into a walrus.

Anyone with an educated eye can see the difference ... while those who also shop at Dollar General for their kids and family think looking like that is "normal" :embarrassed: :rolleyes:

Jack

PS: Sun Demon had a neck like a telephone pole and stopped many dogs that "decimated" other (thin-skin/boned) dogs ... but they could hardly tickle Sun Demon ... who stopped every dog he was ever rolled with, from some big-name people, except 1.

Sun Demon was a powerfully built bulldog, here are a couple more old photos of him --

He was a good, all-around dog.

Those you guys posted look awesome, Minnie Me looks like he's on his way to a Bully Expo show!! :lol:

That pic of screaming icon looks like wiseman's ch 2 for 30!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, that pic of Screaming Icon is one of the most beautiful pics I've seen of any dog period. Perfect picture.

Thanks. Wish he had a happier ending, because he was a good, solid dog.

Strong as a bull ... and would turn a muzzle into pudding ...

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

Thanks. Wish he had a happier ending, because he was a good, solid dog.

Strong as a bull ... and would turn a muzzle into pudding ...

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That sounds as if he's no longer around, i truly hope that's not the case.

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Originally Posted by CrazyRed

That sounds as if he's no longer around, i truly hope that's not the case.

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Screaming Icon was a below-average athlete, with way above average durability, mouth, and gameness ... against something his own weight.

He was matched into an extremely rough dog, pushing 2 lb, which means against a bigger dog his lack of athleticism was even a bigger hurdle. So Screaing Icon took a beating for over an hour, but he stayed with it, fucking that dog's muzzle up from the bottom, wrecking his teeth, and eventually mounted a comeback. Even though he could not stand, Screaming Icon ran not 1, not 2, but 3 falling-down scratches, finally pulling it off to win in 1:20, showing exceptional gameness.

2 weeks later, with no time to recover from his previous injuries, Screaming Icon was hooked again ... and was put in keep, still limping, still with wounds ... and matched in to Gr Ch Bugsy, this time a 4-lb bigger dog, even further hampering Screaming Icon's lack of talent (not to mention his lack of recovery). It was no contest, and Screaming Icon got brutalized and eventually hung it up ... getting labeled "a cur" ... but IMO his owner earned the label of "fucking idiot."

Jack

The owner of Screaming Icon sounds like a fucking idiot. Damn shame

They owned Ponchoback too, didn't they? And wasted both of those fine bulldogs.

Screaming Icon sired a pup named Buddah, whatever happened to him? He was one sharp looking little pup.

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Originally Posted by ragedog10

The owner of Screaming Icon sounds like a fucking idiot. Damn shame

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Yep

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Originally Posted by SGC

They owned Ponchoback too, didn't they? And wasted both of those fine bulldogs.

Screaming Icon sired a pup named Buddah, whatever happened to him? He was one sharp looking little pup.

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He's dead too. Owner has no idea why (think negligence).

Maybe they should start off with a rock before getting anything living, damn, three dead?

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Originally Posted by SZ82

Maybe they should start off with a rock before getting anything living, damn, three dead?

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Different owners, same result.

I don't miss selling dogs ...

Wow, if I had that happen, I'd be pissed, and wouldn't miss it, either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

Screaming Icon was a below-average athlete, with way above average durability, mouth, and gameness ... against something his own weight.

He was matched into an extremely rough dog, pushing 2 lb, which means against a bigger dog his lack of athleticism was even a bigger hurdle. So Screaing Icon took a beating for over an hour, but he stayed with it, fucking that dog's muzzle up from the bottom, wrecking his teeth, and eventually mounted a comeback. Even though he could not stand, Screaming Icon ran not 1, not 2, but 3 falling-down scratches, finally pulling it off to win in 1:20, showing exceptional gameness.

2 weeks later, with no time to recover from his previous injuries, Screaming Icon was hooked again ... and was put in keep, still limping, still with wounds ... and matched in to Gr Ch Bugsy, this time a 4-lb bigger dog, even further hampering Screaming Icon's lack of talent (not to mention his lack of recovery). It was no contest, and Screaming Icon got brutalized and eventually hung it up ... getting labeled "a cur" ... but IMO his owner earned the label of "fucking idiot."

Jack

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Tragedy

Yes

Jack, could you give the board some details on muscle head and jueteng? Also what was your thought process on the creating process of icon and brickhouse

MuscleHead was an average dog ... until he hit 4. Up till that time, he fought half-heartedly, scratched, but really didn't do much. After 4 or so, he became a gut dog who killed a couple for Leon when he got older.

Jueteng was a pretty good bitch, talent-wise, who (among other) spotted Conan's Deeday weight and totally overpowered her, forcing a pickup. However, I was told Jueteng quit later at around :40 or so.

Jack