Young brood female

[dance all night rece]

Just for descussion purposes if u have a female thats only used for breeding , how yound is too young to bred?

[apeman]

Bump up for 2020...

[CLUTCH]

Great topic... It all depends on the female. I typically like to wait three heat cycles before breeding any bitch. Only because some bitches might only have two cycles in the span of eighteen month's. This also allow's me time to figure out what trait's she brings to the table. JMO

[EWO]

One of the stranger things to me is why repeat breedings seldom duplicate themselves.

We never bred a lot of dogs but when did this one:

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=46881

The entire litter was game, and all were show quality with the exception of Doorstop. He was maybe the best from the litter but he knocked out his teeth.

With such a good litter we repeated it. One good dog out of seven and a few curs and a couple three game plugs.

Even though we got one show dog and a couple three game dogs from a litter of 7 I was disappointed. 7 show dogs to 1 show dog was a let down.

S

[CYJ]

Ditto Stonewall you may be right. I was told that the more successful Game Cock breeders will not breed old Cocks or old hens. Believing that within a certain age, the Cock's sperm or Hen's eggs are not as virulent. Producing weaker type birds.

Whether true or false could apply to our dog's as well. I do not know how some of the last litters bred off Red Boy turned out. Red Boy lived to be around fourteen years old if I remember correctly. EWO may know. Cheers

[EWO]

No real idea. I have known several guys in the birds that refused to use and did not believe in incubators. They said it ended up with a weaker bird.

I think, for no more than I know, the bird game evolves faster than the dogs. They will breed or get roosters off what is winning now. If they are breeding something that is linked to long ago, it has a direct link and a continual string of winners from yesteryear til today.

Dog people will use a set of papers to chase dead dogs and make futile attempts to re-create a dog from 30 years ago. Chickens not so much.

From that aspect I would say the chickens are bred earlier.

Secondly no one is doing the hens so they serve no other purpose but to breed. So that makes the younger ones more appealing.

That is about the jist of what I know.
'
'EWO

[Frank43]

To me with dogs we know how the older ones produced. I may do the nostalgia thing a little. Plus dogs change a lot with age. Do you really want to breed a female or male really early and have a yard based on them and they stop. Patrick said he valued ability in the female and male equally. Cold females may be more valuable in lines where females are known for eating their young.

[CYJ]

Frank43, the good ones are just where you find them. AS EWO said about making a same breeding of proven worth dogs. Yet that next litter with the same Stud x Dam end up a over all flop.

I am not advocating to breed quiting dogs or cold dogs. Up to the individual,it's their kennel and their money. If a litter of dogs show good and one is a cold dog. Maybe put the dog aside for awhile longer. Check it out later, particularly if a female. See if the bitch can throw some good dogs. An example would be the full sister to Patrick's Tombstone. Another would be V. Jackson's Hank. If V.J. had shot Hank at two years old. Would be no Jocko/Red Boy dogs of today. It takes some experience to tell the difference in a cold dog and a rank cur. Some still will use that as a excuse to keep and breed a rank well bred cur. A lot of our pedigrees will have some.


Jones of Rebel Kennels did just that and won some serious show matches. I am sure he did not continue down that format. Some of those dogs he used from J. Crenshaw were still one generation from some proven dogs.

Do not fool yourself that all of Patrick's dogs were deep game. Just because his name was on the pedigree. Nor that all his dogs were bred like he said. Back when I was in the game he was well known for stealing good dogs and changing papers etc. He was smart enough to steal good tested and bred dogs. LOL Just a matter of days before Patrick left the state of Oregon. Him and some side kicks of his, visited Mr. Orbie Coplin, who was now up in age.

Brought some dogs to roll and test. Mr. Coplin got the best of Patrick and stopped at least one of Patrick's pride and joy. Mr Coplin made the mistake of showing them his dog yard and where the dogs were located. By the next evening three of his best dogs, two that showed really good in the rolls. Were gone and never seen or heard of again.

There is no exact science or monopoly on the game dog. Being a higher genetic form of animal is always hard to tell how the results will play out. Knowing what I know today and was still in the game. Would rather be a sought after conditioner than a breeder.

To spend countless days/hours feeding a large yard of dogs. Takes a lot of money and over time keeps you from your family. Can suck the life out of you. LOL Cheers

[Frank43]

Would rather be a sought after conditioner than a breed

That is a very interesting statement. I enjoy both. I like conditioning. Breeding is a way to give me what I like to work. I don't know how I feel about the match part. I feel a dog needs to proved himself. It would probably be a necessary evil or a way to shut up a loud mouth.

I like spending time and working a dog. Watching the work and now what I am feeding sculpt his body. It is crazy to me how much the athleticism in an already athletic dog improves by feeing high quality high protein feed and working them. Its like the power to weight ratio improves their body is lighter and they get stronger. It really excites me. I do aim to do most of my work in legal endeavors. Confirmation shows etc maybe weight pull. I guess to me ADBA confirmation show means you should have one shaped like it was show night.

[EWO]

Well said.

I came along with a guy who culled hard. he kept 8-10-12 dogs that were open 24/7/365. To get there a lot of dogs were only a notch off, or needed a little more time, or was a really good dog themselves, but ran into one better. He looks back now and says, "What if?" because he put some dogs down that could have very well changed the game. But we will never know.

The best all around dog I was ever around was well over two before he got the picture. He had litter mates that thought they were grown at 10-11-12 months. Fortunately there was some patience involved. Ch. Charlie 4XW may have very well never been. His 2XW sister either.

The owner of Ch. Caballo picked him up in every roll as soon as he got in the least bit of trouble. Most would think Caballo was not getting schooled. For whatever reason, he learned to get in, destroy and get out before someone stopped his fun. It was said Caballo so smart that if he could count money and drive, he would have went out solo.

A lot say Mountain Man's Bandit quit. I know two older fellows who saw him way back when and they would damn near fist fight over what they both saw. He was bred to get to Two Eyes, who was bred to a TarHeel Matt female and then that to a Patrick dog, down from those same stolen dogs and I ended up with Chloe and Cornbread. Chloe won once and Cornbread is one of the best I have ever seen.

Babbling, but the point is that there is a ton of ways to get to a good dog and there is no monopoly on the path to a good dog. When you get one, you got one, and how you got there really does not matter. How you choose to get there or perpetuate from there is completely up to the person feeding the dogs.

What I think or do does not factor with the guy down the road. And the opposite is true as well.

EWO