Can line breeding and inbreeding produce consistent dogs with above average mouth? Out of all the dogs I had, the ones with the most mouth were outcrossed dogs. I also think that mouth is one of the hardest trait to consistently produce after years and years of maintaining your own line.
I have never specifically bred for mouth, but there are lines that are known for above-average mouth.
It's just that there are other traits which are so much more important than mouth that, if it becomes a choice of selection, most breeders are going to select for gameness/intelligence/athleticism/air over "mouth" if it's an either/or situation.
Of course mouth is a good thing to have, but there are several traits that are much more important to have, so mouth often gets pushed by the wayside ... because so many individuals are worthy dogs who don't have it.
That said, many of the hardest-mouthed dogs, historically, were linebred/inbred animals (Zebo, Tornado, etc.)
Jack
I have seen heavily inbred animals with very devastating mouths. Have seen dogs with great mouth getting inbred upon, and the offspring lost that mouth. I know there are lines out there that are well known for their mouth. On the other hand I have seen dogs with terrible mouths not being able to do much damage because they lack finish. Seen average mouthed dogs with great finish that were able to put one down in short order. Just breed for mouth is nothing I would do, breeding for finish is something I will do. Ofcourse the dog has to be game smart and full of air to. But finish is something I rate very high.
Why do you think inbreeding take away their mouth? What if you just keep breeding the offsprings with mouth back to each other? Maybe it's not that simple?Originally Posted by skipper
Good question. To be honest I can't answer why. I am no expert in genetics, all I know is that some dogs can handle inbreeding more than others. Know of a guy that had dogs that were known for there mouth and ability, but the more he in/line bred upon his foundation dogs the more they lost those traits. Until he did a complete outcross. That brought the traits back....Very interesting topic this. Maybe somebody that have better knowledge in genetics can answer this?
Great post Skipper.
"Finish" is why I am linebreeding on Silverback, over a ton of other "game, smart" stud dogs that I had.
Jack
Does any one believe that when a dog is not fully turned on in battle, his bite is not as devastating as when he is. I knew a lady who bred some of them Riptide dogs she got from R Stratton and they wouldnt get mad til around the :30 minute mark.
I schooled two siblings together one time and for the first :10 they didn't seem to do any damage whatsoever. After :10 they got serious and that's when I saw blood. Any thoughts on this?
I think some dogs bite harder from fear (when green) than they do when they're schooled.
I also think some dogs don't bite as hard when they're controlling, than when they're going for the finish. In other words, some dogs use their mouth as a "tool" to hang-on, not as a weapon.
Kind of like some boxers jab & hook, at a lighter power effort, but will be selective as to when they will let a punch really fly. I think this is the mark of a pro.
I read a story on how Gr CH Lionhead showed a devastating mouth in school ... but then he stopped trying to bite so hard "all the time" when he was experienced ... and would just ride a dog out for the most part ... and then would really bite hard when he felt it was time to do so.
I think dogs who "try their hardest" to do anything "all the time" will get tired and used-up much quicker ... and almost invariably will be duck soup and easy money for the seasoned dog, who learns to pace itself, and who only really pours it on "when the time is right" to do so.
Jack
Very true.
that depends on how good the dogs other traits are, the sum of all the traits is what it comes down to and why some with average mouth champ out and some that have a bear trap don't, I like dogs with hustle a dog with hustle will get where they want more often still need more tools in the bag though
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