Can line breeding and inbreeding produce consistent dogs with above average mouth? Out of all the dogs I had, the ones with the most mouth were outcrossed dogs. I also think that mouth is one of the hardest trait to consistently produce after years and years of maintaining your own line.
I have never specifically bred for mouth, but there are lines that are known for above-average mouth.
It's just that there are other traits which are so much more important than mouth that, if it becomes a choice of selection, most breeders are going to select for gameness/intelligence/athleticism/air over "mouth" if it's an either/or situation.
Of course mouth is a good thing to have, but there are several traits that are much more important to have, so mouth often gets pushed by the wayside ... because so many individuals are worthy dogs who don't have it.
That said, many of the hardest-mouthed dogs, historically, were linebred/inbred animals (Zebo, Tornado, etc.)
Jack
I have seen heavily inbred animals with very devastating mouths. Have seen dogs with great mouth getting inbred upon, and the offspring lost that mouth. I know there are lines out there that are well known for their mouth. On the other hand I have seen dogs with terrible mouths not being able to do much damage because they lack finish. Seen average mouthed dogs with great finish that were able to put one down in short order. Just breed for mouth is nothing I would do, breeding for finish is something I will do. Ofcourse the dog has to be game smart and full of air to. But finish is something I rate very high.
Great post Skipper.
"Finish" is why I am linebreeding on Silverback, over a ton of other "game, smart" stud dogs that I had.
Jack
Does any one believe that when a dog is not fully turned on in battle, his bite is not as devastating as when he is. I knew a lady who bred some of them Riptide dogs she got from R Stratton and they wouldnt get mad til around the :30 minute mark.
I schooled two siblings together one time and for the first :10 they didn't seem to do any damage whatsoever. After :10 they got serious and that's when I saw blood. Any thoughts on this?
I think some dogs bite harder from fear (when green) than they do when they're schooled.
I also think some dogs don't bite as hard when they're controlling, than when they're going for the finish. In other words, some dogs use their mouth as a "tool" to hang-on, not as a weapon.
Kind of like some boxers jab & hook, at a lighter power effort, but will be selective as to when they will let a punch really fly. I think this is the mark of a pro.
I read a story on how Gr CH Lionhead showed a devastating mouth in school ... but then he stopped trying to bite so hard "all the time" when he was experienced ... and would just ride a dog out for the most part ... and then would really bite hard when he felt it was time to do so.
I think dogs who "try their hardest" to do anything "all the time" will get tired and used-up much quicker ... and almost invariably will be duck soup and easy money for the seasoned dog, who learns to pace itself, and who only really pours it on "when the time is right" to do so.
Jack
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Very true.
I also know a lady who bred some dogs from Stratton dogs, namely off a bitch she called Rip. The ones I saw didn't take 30 minutes to come unglued, and they were off the Dio Duel/Rip breeding.
In regards to mouth, it is another trait. If you want to successfully have that, then you have to breed dogs that have that trait ALONG with whatever else it is you want.
I agree also that hard biting dogs that "try their hardest" to do anything "all the time" will blow out sooner than others as they're putting themselves in a position to quit. The only drawback to that is if that dog is able to get where it wants and utilize what it has, but that goes for pretty much anything.
that depends on how good the dogs other traits are, the sum of all the traits is what it comes down to and why some with average mouth champ out and some that have a bear trap don't, I like dogs with hustle a dog with hustle will get where they want more often still need more tools in the bag though
That's the same lady I know(Sarah P of PDK) 17 years ago I bought a cold 4 yr old bitch she used to own and I was able to get her cranked up. Well I took her back to their farm to roll her against one of their bitch and I believe it was Rip. Her man the cop said their dogs don't get mad until the :30 minute mark. All their dogs were well behaved and the ones that didn't, they got rid of them. That's how I acquired the supposedly cold bitch's son Amos 1xw1xldg. He was a freak of a bulldog. I won with him over a vet dogman in :18, breaking both shoulders, and it took 3 of us to get Amos out the house. I went and did some time, my brother in law couldn't take care of him and he lost all his cutters. So he sold him. The guys that bought him contract him into Titan, a dog down from Rip. Amos dominated for an hour, he got tired and Titan took over. At the 1:30 mark Amos's turn to scratch, his shoulders we're broken and he crawled over to Titan, mouth, shitted, and died right in the box. When I got out I was able to acquire two offsprings I bred Amos to before I got locked up. One off a grand daughter to Rip and the other off Amos and his dame. Both were Dg dogs. I also heard some of Amos's other offsprings had above average and freak mouth too. That was the last time I had a dog with such powerful mouth. When he had cutters, every dog he bit didn't survive.
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