Frisco line

[EWO]

I would not doubt any of the story except the part about rolling him one day and shipping the next. Even in the best of times, that would never happen.

I too saw Frisco and was with a guy who bred to him on the old Bulldog Hill. Frisco was lively and outgoing on that particular day. He was not overly friendly nor was he overly outgoing but he was not at the other end of the chain spot like some describe.

By then maybe he had realized his lot in life was to be 'cootchie-getter' and not a 'go-getter and his demeanor was different. That I do not know.

Fortunately for the game someone bred the dog. There are tons and tons of winners off of him. Then there was a stretch where things went south. There were a lot of Frisco dogs that were devastating and had incredible finishing skills, but out of that bunch there were a lot that would walk away.

Tons of families go thru the same thing.

Then all of a sudden Frisco was throwing hard mouthed game dogs, both durable and with finish. My best guess is, like a fine wine, his sperm got better with time.

Most stud dogs who become famous have similar stories. A lot of time the dog catches the knock for the decision made by people.

EWO

[ROCK-MACHINE]

I would not doubt any of the story except the part about rolling him one day and shipping the next. Even in the best of times, that would never happen.

I too saw Frisco and was with a guy who bred to him on the old Bulldog Hill. Frisco was lively and outgoing on that particular day. He was not overly friendly nor was he overly outgoing but he was not at the other end of the chain spot like some describe.

By then maybe he had realized his lot in life was to be 'cootchie-getter' and not a 'go-getter and his demeanor was different. That I do not know.

Fortunately for the game someone bred the dog. There are tons and tons of winners off of him. Then there was a stretch where things went south. There were a lot of Frisco dogs that were devastating and had incredible finishing skills, but out of that bunch there were a lot that would walk away.

Tons of families go thru the same thing.

Then all of a sudden Frisco was throwing hard mouthed game dogs, both durable and with finish. My best guess is, like a fine wine, his sperm got better with time.

Most stud dogs who become famous have similar stories. A lot of time the dog catches the knock for the decision made by people.

EWO

Unless there is any merit to the stories of T.G. using TVK'S Rusty Rebel (Cottingham/Boudreaux') who had a stay on Bulldog Hill while his owner was on "vacation". Bull-Finch who was staying in T.G.s guest house for a time swears up and down he and T.G. bred the balls off of Rusty during his stay. I guess it all boils down to what one wants to believe. Wonder though what traits a Cottingham/Boudreaux'/Frisco/Lee Ling cross would throw eh. Not my blood so it makes no difference to me either side T.G.'s or Bull-Finch's, for ''conversation'' sake though....



I have over the years spoken to both T.G. and Bull-Finch on more then one bulldog subject, listened to stories from both men.

When asked about Rusty Rebel, T.G. goes off on a chest beating rant and his truth is the dog was never bred during his stay on Bulldog Hill. Bull-Finch for his part has always quietly maintained his truth on the subject and has/and does still work with a Cottingham/Boudreaux'/Frisco cross.

I also had a chance to talk with TVK and when asked about Rusty Rebel, TVK was of a mind that his dog was better then any Frisco bred dog, when asked about weather or not he felt T.G. had bred Rusty to any of his bitches and registered them as being off of Frisco he just laughed and said no comment.

Again though, if you run the blood it's up to you to decided for yourself who's truth it is that you want to believe. From what I have seen online people defend T.G. like he was kin to them and his word is as good as gospel, I guess his word alone is good enough for them and if they feed something off of his yard, that's all that really matters is what they want to believe.

https://youtu.be/8t7rQNUFUGU

[Targo]

Great read, much appreciated thanks

[EWO]

My buddy had Ch. Caballo. Off of Dynomite. Caballo looked like Dynomite was bred to Rusty and those two males threw Caballo.

It was said Caballo was so smart/so good that if he could drive and count money, he would go out solo.

The guy that worked him had a lifetime of experience crossing just about every strain of Red Boy to Eli dogs. His Cottinham/Eli dogs looked a lot like Caballo and Rusty, but more importantly they were extremely intense, hard mouthed dogs who stayed on top of the muzzle, just about between the eyes. Not a defensive minded head dog but a punishing type head dog. Just like Caballo, just like Rusty and from what I heard, just like Dyniomite.

But like you said, people can believe what they want. Personally, I could care less. The few dogs I have seen off of Dynomite I could care less if he was papered off a Labra-doodle. They were certainly going and they had ill intentions when they got there.

EWO

[ROCK-MACHINE]

My buddy had Ch. Caballo. Off of Dynomite. Caballo looked like Dynomite was bred to Rusty and those two males threw Caballo.

It was said Caballo was so smart/so good that if he could drive and count money, he would go out solo.

The guy that worked him had a lifetime of experience crossing just about every strain of Red Boy to Eli dogs. His Cottinham/Eli dogs looked a lot like Caballo and Rusty, but more importantly they were extremely intense, hard mouthed dogs who stayed on top of the muzzle, just about between the eyes. Not a defensive minded head dog but a punishing type head dog. Just like Caballo, just like Rusty and from what I heard, just like Dyniomite.

But like you said, people can believe what they want. Personally, I could care less. The few dogs I have seen off of Dynomite I could care less if he was papered off a Labra-doodle. They were certainly going and they had ill intentions when they got there.

EWO

I had a chance a long ways back to talk to Mr. R. and asked among other's about Conan and he described him the same way, with emphasis on Conan being scary smart.

Conan's son Ch Mr. Jaw-Bone showed all the same traits as well.

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Mike Kellys dogs absolutely not paper hung

Another very reputable breeder of Frisco-Chinaman blood is Mr. King, either him or Mr. Kelly and you can't go wrong.

[Osagedogman2015]

As with all of these dogs being mentioned, I have no idea if they are bred the way they are registered, or if they are paper hung. I have had experience with this son of Frisco and I really liked him. My only regret is not keeping more dogs off of him and breeding to him more when I had the chance to do so. The 3rd picture of him (the one with Garner's Rooster in the picture) was taken when he was visiting my yard one summer day. I thought him to be a very game acting dog that threw that quality and more in his offspring.

Garner's Rooster
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=22121

[TrailerTrash]

Ive had Kelly , Mr.Bill, Hunterman at my house good crew up the North East . That being said I'd leave first names out of this site . Just my humble opinion , think he is out of the dogs anyway

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Ive had Kelly , Mr.Bill, Hunterman at my house good crew up the North East . That being said I'd leave first names out of this site . Just my humble opinion , think he is out of the dogs anyway

All are common knowledge, none do the dogs and all as breeders are known to anyone with a computer, no different then T.G.'s Pup Mart ,only difference is they are ''hobby'' breeders and don't self promote or run a high end puppy mill.

>>>>>>>>>Point Taken though and Posts Edited<<<<<<<<<<<

[Osagedogman2015]

--- Articles from the SDJ around 1997 ---

Dear Journal,
It seems that everyone is knocking Frisco lately..Why?? So chainsaw writes a story about what a poor dog Frisco is-what difference does it make??Nobody ever claimed Frisco is,or ever has been a ace match dog..What he is,is a producer of hardmouth match dogs..Alot of people claim that all he throws are curs,but I know different!!! I have matched more than a couple of dogs sired by Frisco and seen alot more than that.My opinion is that...when you get a good Frisco dog you got a first class dog all the way..Mouth,ability,natural air,even gameness..Put a Frisco dog in condition,and he can run with anyone-miss his keep however,and he'll probably shoot his wad and end up losing..So what?? No line of dogs is invincible..As for his record of producing,you cant say it was made in Taiwan..I campaigned a little bitch off Frisco into the best I could find and made her a champuion..I tried to match her into at least 6 champions for matches 3 and 4 and everyone told me that their bitch was retired..Now everyone might think that Im a big Frisco fan..Im not..My own taste runs more to the Buster blood,but Im not stupid or Knl blind..I'll run what I think can win..Its that simple,and you can win with a Frisco dog in goos condition..
Milk INC.



Dear Journal,
This letter is in responce to chainsaws comments on Frisco..I lived in the Portland area when Frisco was rolled and he never stopped..He would go across and not take hold,so we put him on the chain and decided to try him at another time..In Nevada he was rolled into Lever Red a hard mouthed dog,but Frisco was biting awfully hard and we decided to pick Lever Red up and start a IV on him..But Frisco never quit..We decided to send him to Mr Garner to use as a stud dog because Frisco's brother Chinatom had died..
Shaman



Dear Journal,
In reply to chainsaw and southpaw knls,your both trying to put Frisco down for making ROM..Everyone knows that Jeep's sire quit,as did Bullyson..Last but not least a son & daughter of Frisco both won in over 2hrs..Frisco's record is 81 wins,19 losses,10 of them were picked up game,and ONLY 9 quit...
G.Braswell


Dogmen,
I met Mike Williams a long time ago and helped him get into the dogs and brought him places with me introduced him to people and even helped him start his dogfood business..All of which he ruined..Chinagirl did quit on top in her old age with no teeth,which is no excuse which really suprised me as she took a big beating at Steve H's house earlier in life and showed very game..About Frisco,we rolled him first in Oregon with K.Fee,R.Terry,was there and Terrys dog was in deep trouble in 15min and Frisco almost killed him..2 mo later in Oregon we rolled him again and Gene P and Alex from Canada ws there..Frisco hit the shoulder and in 7min they had to bury there dog..About 1mo later we bumped him again..Like always he hit the shoulder then he went to the dick and flopped down like he was unconscious even though he always scratched hard..He showed no signs of quitting and he acted funny like this for the next couple of rolls..From my expierience and from talking to oldtimers I beleive he was rubbed the 1st time and he remembered it later..
I wanted to see for sure if this was a rub,or if he was not a honest dog,so after another 6mo in which time his brother Chinatom became a 2xw by beating a 5xw we tried to run Frisco off and used a big dog names Lever Red who was at least 12lbs bigger and rough with a very hard mouth and strong that had pulled the shoulders out of xx's dog in 12min..This was maybe the best roll I ever saw..They hit stifle to stifle doing terrible damage and Greg T,Shaman,Mike W and me were there..Greg said to me at 20min that we better pick up the big dog..I said let it go,but shaman who worked on dogs medicaly as a ace said if we did not do it now it would be to late as Lever reds eyes were rolling up in his head and he was going into shock..We had to put a IV in to save Lever Red..Frisco scratched hard and true through out this roll and showed only game signs..It was clear that he was rubbed before and that he was a real bulldog..
My good friendship with Garner is such that I send him dogs if they might help his breeding program..When I sent Frisco to to TG MW was very mad at me as he wanted the dog and claimed the dog was his..I gave mike $200 cash to send him to TG..MW bred to Frisco before he sent him..I did not let him keep the dog..Dogs at his house lived in there own shit,and had sores and if he would steal another mans dog then Frisco might end up missing..How do I know so much about Him?? I lived down the street from him and everyday I saw how he kept his dogs,and made his dogfood..One day I stopped by his house and saw a dog I knew from another yard..I asked him about it and he told me how he stole it and changed the papers on it..He bred this dog to WhiteHead which produced a dog named Rex that sold for big bucks..Whoever owns Rex can contact me and I will tell you the true breeding on your dog..
Whenevr someone finds out their dogs are stolen anything can happen..I started to understand that MW would lie,cheat and do anything and whoever came looking for him,my wife and child might be at his house if shooting started..I saw how mike screwed so many people so many times and knew it was just a matter of time..In Oregon Mike screwed some guys and the Tinman wanted to punch his ticket...I talked to the Tinman and like so many times before I covered for him because he was my friend and I was loyal to him..Mikes main problem is that he is lazy and tries to cut corners in everything he does but wants respect..But if you know him you dont respect him..He is very jealous of other people having sucsess in anything but he screws up everything..
I called MW and asked him about the artical he wrote..He said he knew Frisco didnt quit and said he said those things to get back at TG and me because we told how he makes his dogfood...This was about the rumor that he pisses in the mixer he makes his food in..I lived down the street and saw exactly how he made his food like not putting the cover on,and finding mice and mice shit,and bats in the barn..But i never saw him piss in it.. He begged me since I was godfather to his child that if i told the truth about him I would be hurting his family..I like his wife and family alot as they are good people but he's pulled so much shit for so long that he deserves whatever happens to him..MW will steal,cheat,and lie to screw anyone and will do it to those that love him like a brother..Luike the time he called N of Utah Cole Knls and said that my wife was very sick and he needed to borrow the $1000 to pay me back the money he owed me..But MW like always took the money from this trusting lady and never paid her back and never gave any to me..Thats MW for ya..Using lies and pitty to steal from people who trust him..Today he has German sheperds..He was a loser at gamedogs even with all the breaks that he got,and when the GS people find out how he makes his food and keeps his dogs they'll learn about him..Watch how over time he blows it like he did with the gamedogs..I swear everything Ive said is true and tghere is alot more about MW than that...
Vinnie R.