First stools were like a pure mucus and a very pale color. NOW - chocolate milk followed by a thin soft-serve chocolate ice-cream.
Is this good news or is it any indication of anything at all?
First stools were like a pure mucus and a very pale color. NOW - chocolate milk followed by a thin soft-serve chocolate ice-cream.
Is this good news or is it any indication of anything at all?
I would say the stool has improved a bit if it was pure mucus and pale first. R2L has given a good tip on a good digestible thing to feed her. It depends on how young the pup is. Already on solid food ?
OK - This dumb son of a bitch totally missed the fucking boat.
No protozoa problem of any kind, I've got fucking PARVO! How the hell does someone go into a vet and say, "I have a PUPPY who has diarrhea, throws up some and won't eat" and he NOT do a PARVO TEST?!
So now,,,,,,what the hell do I do with the siblings? I have one I know is coming down with it! She's eating and doing "ok", but I know she's got it b/c of how she acts. What do I do preventatively?
Have your vet prescribe you Tamiflu immediately ...
Jack
Thanks Jack - very much!
Best of luck !
Gotta get the Bible
how old are the pups, you guys normally vaccinate for parvo? Its a highly contagious disease so id watch them other puppies too
Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel
Honestly my friend, at some point you have to take some responsibility yourself. How long have you been in dogs and why haven't you bothered to learn all these things yet? I wrote an article on treating parvo, back in 1993, that clearly stated any time a pup is really sick it should be tested for parvo, coccidia, and giardia. That information has been on every website I have ever had, it is also in my book, and although I haven't yet re-posted it on this one since I changed servers 2 month ago, the fact is taking any sick pups in to have these 3 tests run is basically "Pit Bulls 101" for any breeder.
Also, you have to ask yourself, "Why do I continue to go to (and ask questions of) a vet who has proven himself indecisive and incompetent?" Because, personally, if any vet I went to proved himself so uneducated that he recommended I use a drug on giardia that I knew (or later learned) would not handle the problem, that would be the last time I would ask that ignoramus anything. I would be furious if a so-called vet were guilty of basic malpractice like that. I mean, this is basic stuff here. And, honestly, with as much experience as you have in dogs, good sir, you should know this already yourself if you bothered to read any basic book on dog care.
Because, actually, the first symptoms you described (pale stools) is a sign of giardia. So it is entirely possible your dog has parvo and giardia. Your vet may have accurately identified the giardia, but that doesn't mean parvo wasn't present as well. So, although I do agree that a concerned vet should recommend a parvo titer if a dog is not eating/vomiting/ and has diarrhea, ultimately it is also your responsibility to have read enough by now about "what can go wrong with pups" so that you ask the vet to check for parvo and coccidia/giardia as well. That is the very first step any owner should take, if his pups are sick, is ruling out these 3 most-likely problems.
These 3 diseases are not "rare," or a big mystery; the truth is anyone who's bred dogs for a year or two should know about them, if they had the curiosity and concern for their animals to read some basic books on puppy raising. So I honestly don't think you can dump all of this on your vet.
Jack
Jack, good sir! Do not think for one second I haven't kicked my own ass a little on this deal right here. There are a few things pertaining to this case that are not like most cases.
1. I specifically asked the vet when I took her in, "You reckon this could be Parvo?" He asked a few questions about exposure, vaccinations, etc. and "deductively" ruled it out. True, I myself should have insisted a titer be done, but the "good old" vet was "quite sure" it was not parvo.
2. He went straight to the fecal test and declared "PROTOZOA". I agree that it could very well be both problems, but he pursued only one and when you have a Texas A&M vet tell you something or guide you down a path, you are inclined to follow and trust. Especially when he brings you to the fecal slide and points out "that's your problem".
3. Why go to this vet? How bout this one. I live in Memphis Texas. Look it up. There is nothing here. I have two vet options in Childress Texas (32 miles from my home). The other one already failed me with meds for pyometra and proved to be incompetent and the other one is this guy. Highly recommended by the way.....not be me, but before hand. My next option is in Clarendon Texas, 30+ miles away and bad reviews from locals here in my own town. The next option is Amarillo (87 miles away). So as far as having options, this is literally all I have. I've lived here for exactly 1 year and 1 week and will be moving next week. So hopefully, I'll have more options. However, as incredibly handy as it would be to be smarter than all vets on the planet, I should be confident when going to one that they know their business and will do me a good job......they do have a degree in this shit, years of practice and I'm paying the bill.
4. You suggest you would be "furious". Believe me, I am extremely hot over this ordeal. I have read many a book on dog care and by no means am I on the level of veterinarian, but I do a pretty good job. So many people in all forums/arenas, love to make suggestions, "Get the Bible" without being completely in the KNOW of the entire scope of the situation at hand. I'm the same guy who did use this book, this website and other dog breeders to pull a near death bitch through with pyometra. So shit happens and we should all be advised to not "jump hard or fast" to any conclusions.
5. These 3 diseases are not "rare," or a big mystery; the truth is anyone who's bred dogs for a year or two should know about them, if they had the curiosity and concern for their animals to read some basic books on puppy raising. So I honestly don't think you can dump all of this on your vet. Jack, while I appreciate your knowledge, willingness to share and although I have what I consider thick skin and take my meds with the best of them when wrong, you can be a condescending son of a gun at times. "IF THEY HAD THE CURIOSITY AND CONCERN FOR THEIR ANIMALS" is extremely accusational and presumptuous on your part. I have a very high level of curiousity and a great deal of concern for my animals. That is exhibited by the fact that I have tried extremely hard to take care of this situation and exhibited my efforts here as I want to do what is best for my animals. CURIOSITY AND CONCERN are two reasons I feed a completely natural and RAW diet, my dogs are as parasite free as any other yard in the world and one of, if not the main reason I frequent this board.
One has no experience without actually doing something. I haven't bred a litter of pups since about 6 years ago. However, I've bred dogs for 16 or 17 years now. Not one time, ever, have I had coccidia, girardia or parvo on my yard. Not once. Had two pups as a kid that had parvo and seen a few others on others' yards that had it, so I had a good eye once mine got bad, but that's it. I would say my conern and preventative care has always been well intact. How did I get this parvo? The only thing I can think of is I had a friend feed while I was away for a few days around a week ago. Who knows? I can't say I will become better than a Vet at diagnosing and treating every scenario under the sun, but I'll continue to do the best I can do. I figure that's all we can do.
With all that being said, I ALWAYS, EVERY DAY, ALL DAY LONG, take responsibility for ME and MINE! I am extremely furious at this vet, because to be honest, I believe he failed me. His attitude is shit, he never has time for what seems to be, "the big guy with the pits" but they seem to have all the time in the world for some fat ass bitch with a lab that's 40lbs overweight and can't breath from walking. But even so, I am responsible and have always lived my life this way. All the good I get, I got. All the bad I get, I made happen. So to be honest, I don't really need anyone coming to my situations lecturing me on accountabilty or "I need to take responsibility". There are times I post on this board for the simple fact that debate needs to occur for all to learn from and I share at times b/c someone may benefit from this.
Have a good one!
Well, actually, IMO (again) the "pale mucousy stools" signified giardia, not parvo.
Parvo stools are usually projectile-watery-bloody in nature, with a distinctive smell.
There are thousands of different protozoa parasites, but I agree that if a vet told me "giardia," then I would think it was giardia.
However, if he told me the nonsense to give "Albon" to treat it, I would also know that this was wrong. The reason I would know this is wrong is because I have educated myself on the subject ... and, if I had never heard of giardia, then the moment I found out about it I would be educating myself on the subject. That's the difference right there: concerned enough to read-up on the subject.
That said, and back to this emergency situation, if the vet pointed out a positive giardia slide then your dog has giardia and you need to treat for it, irrespective of if the dog also has parvo.
I feel your pain. At one point, when I was living in TN, the only vet I trusted lived 1.5 hours from me.
Well, there is no way anyone can be entirely "in the know" of your situation, without being there ... or without you putting in the time to write about it .. but, based on the limited amount you did write, what we DID know was that you came back with a giardia diagnosis, you did not initially test for parvo, and you were advised to treat giardia with a drug that does not affect it. These are the facts that were originally presented by you.
Now you're saying it's not giardia, it's parvo, so I am left curious as to how a positive giardia diagnosis can "vanish" ... and be replaced with a positive parvo diagnosis? Again, if anything, this means your pup has both, and (with nothing being done correctly so far) I am surprised it is still alive, although sometimes fluid therapy alone can keep them going, so it's good you're doing that.
In the end, I am glad that my book helped in some respects, but the protocol to follow in my book is a test for all 3, which wasn't followed initially.
I appreciate what you're saying, and I am really not trying to be condescending, but I do believe that all of this information is in the book ... so if you took the time to read it, you should know it, right? (Unless of course you forgot)
That said (and I am not saying this applies to you), I know a lot of dogmen who like "making puppies," and "selling puppies," and "doing bulldogs" too, but they don't really like to read about the finer points of veterinary medicine to prepare themselves should trouble arise. Doesn't mean they're bad guys, or don't know a lot about some aspects of dogmanship, but it does mean they're deficient in medical matters because they haven't taken the time to make them strong points.
Your point is well taken about the raw, and anyone who takes the time to prepare raw already distinguishes himself as a "better than average caregiver." But that still doesn't mean they read vet books and such
I am not sure how the math on this works out
Pretty much anyone I know breeding dogs deals with coccidia fairly regularly. Giardia and parvo less frequently. Again, I am not trying to be mean, but I can't help but feel that anyone with 16 years into dogs, who doesn't know the signs/treatments for giardia/parvo/coccidia, doesn't do much reading on the subject of veterinary medicine. I don't know how to say this, without saying this, so (without being disrespectful) I sincerely believe this is a form of negligence: not bothering to read about dog ailments/treatments while owning a yard of dogs.
I find your amended opinion on this vet interesting, because in your opening post you said he was "a damned good vet."
I think that it's great that you post things like this, and I sincerely do appreciate it, and I am sincerely sorry if you took offense to what I said. Again, I don't know how to point out what I believe were the errors and omissions without pointing them out
And I absolutely agree that debate needs to occur in order to flush-out the errors ... because, if everything went smoothly, and everything possible was done right, there would be no need for the post to begin with
So I hope you don't take offense to anything I said, because I didn't mean any
Cheers,
Jack
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