Breeders.

[Frank43]

This one of my favorite guys

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=86638

To

Lana II

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=88654

Should build and give me a core. Built along qualities two men valued. Hollingsworth and crews.

George hanna should have a smart monster in it.

I guess you can say that the prototype of what I would put my name on is in there. The core of a family.

There are others out there. Sledges Frank Peterson aka Kobe, sledges George mcAuliff aka Zeus and sledges Caleb. We’re building a type of dog.

[Frank43]

I guess I’m gonna tell a little story about little man. I took three in the litter to my dad. Somehow they ended up missing their second shot. I lost the three pups to parvovirus. Little man was left. Like the runt of the littler. His mom is my kind of crazy. His dad is one of those dogs good natured hard worker. I have little man. Walk-in from outside one day. His dad is spinning in the door way. Seems little man dove under him and was bitin him in the privates. There’s always away to win. Basically you combine clos brains with frank and nalas never quit. You get a dog that will bite your privates do whatever it takes to win.

[Frank43]

https://youtu.be/JUrZp-rWOgU

This a beautiful one too. Makes me smile.

Ha got ‘em! Wow!

https://youtu.be/ilArqNp6PpE

[bossman311]

It's a whole lot more to breeding a family of dogs than just picking 2 dogs to breed.

Even then once you locked in certain traits you can be using a breeding stand for the every breeding based on dogs too active even to breed.
It takes going through each and every dog in each and every litter to finding out what is the best dogs to breed.

No one cares how many just picked ou 1- 2 and sold the rest. Most from my time didn't let go of what they did not keep. You active let out there pwn stock so some one can come back and beat them with it.
Yes allot kept secret recipes but if you knew how to breed than the end result was all you needed anyway.

Allot these days make big claims with doing minimum work as if it's to be celebrated. Meaning at least breed your own family from end-end of a 4 generation pedigree.
You cannot possibly know as much of your product as you think with only 1-2 generations.

You just can't. It takes no less than 4 generations to lock in traits and after that it's up to the breeder to then fill in traits the end results is lacking in. Now after the next 4 generations you have to repat over .
Breeding too much of one thing wil over ride years and years of work and not breeding enough of something is just as if you added nothing in some cases because it takes more than 1 breeding in most cases to lock in traits.

I had hands on with 20 straight generations. I used more than 20 pure-almost pure families to create a single family. Every family was line bred down from grand champions with the exception of the Red Boy dogs used from the Hollands family.
Decades ago it was more and better bred family dogs IMO than there are today. In these times there are more scatter bred dogs than family bred dogs.
I used and stuck with my own method of line breeding battle crossed dogs while keeping them family bred.
Based on the breeder not a single dog.

It takes 1 breeder to establish and maintain 1 standard. As simple as that.
And as a breeder it's not a single family that you focus on but also breeding outcrosses to your base. I have put together over 1 dozen different strains conected to 1 single family so I never have to go outside my own dogs ever again.
If you are not going through 75% of each litter than you are not close to picking the best to go back into your family.

Even belly mates are different so just because they are belly mates does not mean they will perform nor produce the same or even close.
That's what going through whole litters for 18 generations and more teaches you.

No matter what you start out with the dogs change every 4 generations, Nothing stays the same. Learn your dogs. Books and stories are nothin close to hands on with each one.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...6&dam_id=90830

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=90827

[EWO]

Well said.

Hindsight being 20/20 I should have bred more dogs and should have forced myself to being a breeder.

It has always been a headache for me to deal with bitches and puppies and all the things that go with that endeavor.

I never once thought about leaving a mark or creating a legacy or seeing my name in a pedigree. That never did anything for me. I am really thankful others think differently than me and have put in that time.

In the late 70's as a kid I remember the very first 'lesson' I got in these dogs (actually listening to the guy that turned me onto the dogs give advice you a young guy in his 20's getting into the dogs...as a kid I was a sponge and soaked up any and everything bulldog).

He told this guy the dogs were about winning. Nothing more and nothing less. And if he stayed in the dogs 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years, or 200 years, if you decide to get out, enjoyed your times with dogs and dog men, and no one never knows your name, that is mission accomplished. Even as an old guy in the 70's and 80's I think he could see where society was going and how 'unpopular' a person would be who was involved in the dogs. (I might be wrong, but this also came from a guy who was busted twice for the dogs, once making the National news. If you have ever heard Tom Brokaw say, in other news, "and see your two childhood heroes being escorted by the police for dogfighting" you get the importance of anonymity.

But with that said, I do appreciate the people who committed a large part of their lives making a mark and leaving something behind.

Nice post.

I think we discussed one of your Holland bred dogs some years back, Ladybird. Her littermate Bobby was a bulldog who in turn threw bulldogs. I had a winning female out of him bred to a Mims/Snooty/Molly Bee bred bitch.

EWO II

[Frank43]

It's a whole lot more to breeding a family of dogs than just picking 2 dogs to breed.

Even then once you locked in certain traits you can be using a breeding stand for the every breeding based on dogs too active even to breed.
It takes going through each and every dog in each and every litter to finding out what is the best dogs to breed.

No one cares how many just picked ou 1- 2 and sold the rest. Most from my time didn't let go of what they did not keep. You active let out there pwn stock so some one can come back and beat them with it.
Yes allot kept secret recipes but if you knew how to breed than the end result was all you needed anyway.

Allot these days make big claims with doing minimum work as if it's to be celebrated. Meaning at least breed your own family from end-end of a 4 generation pedigree.
You cannot possibly know as much of your product as you think with only 1-2 generations.

You just can't. It takes no less than 4 generations to lock in traits and after that it's up to the breeder to then fill in traits the end results is lacking in. Now after the next 4 generations you have to repat over .
Breeding too much of one thing wil over ride years and years of work and not breeding enough of something is just as if you added nothing in some cases because it takes more than 1 breeding in most cases to lock in traits.

I had hands on with 20 straight generations. I used more than 20 pure-almost pure families to create a single family. Every family was line bred down from grand champions with the exception of the Red Boy dogs used from the Hollands family.
Decades ago it was more and better bred family dogs IMO than there are today. In these times there are more scatter bred dogs than family bred dogs.
I used and stuck with my own method of line breeding battle crossed dogs while keeping them family bred.
Based on the breeder not a single dog.

It takes 1 breeder to establish and maintain 1 standard. As simple as that.
And as a breeder it's not a single family that you focus on but also breeding outcrosses to your base. I have put together over 1 dozen different strains conected to 1 single family so I never have to go outside my own dogs ever again.
If you are not going through 75% of each litter than you are not close to picking the best to go back into your family.

Even belly mates are different so just because they are belly mates does not mean they will perform nor produce the same or even close.
That's what going through whole litters for 18 generations and more teaches you.

No matter what you start out with the dogs change every 4 generations, Nothing stays the same. Learn your dogs. Books and stories are nothin close to hands on with each one.

[url]http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_breedings_test.php?sire_id=88556&dam_id=90 830

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=90827

I agree. I generally do not sell dogs away from me. I don’t breed a lot. I can get back to dogs that I breed and follow them. I do setup breedings proactively. Meaning. I want a certain thing out of a breeding not just tittle chasing. But certain styles and structures. I hear you. There are no short cuts. There are ways to do things than having piles of dogs that “didn’t make it”. I like family breedings. A post like yours. I will read a few times every few months ask honestly am I keeping it honest.

[Frank43]

Well said.

Hindsight being 20/20 I should have bred more dogs and should have forced myself to being a breeder.

It has always been a headache for me to deal with bitches and puppies and all the things that go with that endeavor.

I never once thought about leaving a mark or creating a legacy or seeing my name in a pedigree. That never did anything for me. I am really thankful others think differently than me and have put in that time.

In the late 70's as a kid I remember the very first 'lesson' I got in these dogs (actually listening to the guy that turned me onto the dogs give advice you a young guy in his 20's getting into the dogs...as a kid I was a sponge and soaked up any and everything bulldog).

He told this guy the dogs were about winning. Nothing more and nothing less. And if he stayed in the dogs 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years, or 200 years, if you decide to get out, enjoyed your times with dogs and dog men, and no one never knows your name, that is mission accomplished. Even as an old guy in the 70's and 80's I think he could see where society was going and how 'unpopular' a person would be who was involved in the dogs. (I might be wrong, but this also came from a guy who was busted twice for the dogs, once making the National news. If you have ever heard Tom Brokaw say, in other news, "and see your two childhood heroes being escorted by the police for dogfighting" you get the importance of anonymity.

But with that said, I do appreciate the people who committed a large part of their lives making a mark and leaving something behind.

Nice post.

I think we discussed one of your Holland bred dogs some years back, Ladybird. Her littermate Bobby was a bulldog who in turn threw bulldogs. I had a winning female out of him bred to a Mims/Snooty/Molly Bee bred bitch.

EWO II

I am a control freak and very particular. I’m going to end up building or modding anything I do. I like taking care of pups. I think you can tell a lot about dogs as pups. My gut feelings on dogs as pups has been on so far. The more dogs and choices you get the harder it is to making it into the gene pool.

[Frank43]

As for winning being everything. It is but it isn’t. Some chase the titles that won. Some look at traits and qualities that win and put it out consistently. They win sometimes. Some mix random things and how for the Hail Mary. Different way to. Point.

[EWO]

Agreed it takes all kinds to make the wheels go 'round.

Sometimes it is perspective and past experiences.

My first times in the dogs were as a kid when I was 10-11 years old. A guy sat on a five gallon bucket watching a dog on a mill. When his son blinked a flashlight the dog came off the mill and I walked him around the field as the incoming dog was placed on the mill. I got 2 or three dollars for my work and a whole five if I jogged around the field. Ten years old in rural North Carolina making three to five dollars a day was damn near like being a Rockefeller (or Elon Muck these days).

I was never included in breeding discussions and producing dog discussion, only the actual working of a dog. That discussion led to he has to be perfect to win and winning is really the only purpose/reasoning to owning a bulldog. When that is the first and foremost lesson and one ins only ten years old, it sticks, and it sticks/stays for a really long time. So much so it took a lot of years for this zebra to not only change his stripes but find appreciation in those who didn't have the stripes from the start.

I knew two older fellows who have since passed who would damn near fist fight over whether Bandit quit or was stopped. For me, I am glad the Mountain Man bred him because he threw Two Eyes which thru Miss Two Eyes that when bred to Patrick's Kasai gave me the best male I have ever owned and one of the best females I ever seen. I would have never had that insight.

To a lot who saw him, as a bulldog Snooty was trash. I am glad Carl Mims is so much smarter and wiser than me and incorporated him in the blends of Red Boy-Snooty-Bolio dogs for so many years. That blend of dogs created Mims Charlie who is by far the best all-around, everything dog I have ever seen. Those heavy Snooty bred dogs produced a female named Sugarfoot who is by far the hardest biting dog I have ever seen and would venture to say one of the hardest biting dogs that ever lived.

These are just two of the examples of why my way of thinking never has, nor ever had, a chance of being successful in the dogs.

I look back to those that made better decisions than I would have made and show my appreciation.

I grew up on a yard that had 8-10 spots, and all were winners or on their way to winning. Culling had nothing to do with curs. Culling was removing pretty good game dogs from the mix because the chain spot was needed for a better dog with a better shot at winning. If two match quality dogs landed at 37lbs, he did not have two dogs at 37, he found out which of the two were the 37 to keep. Archaic and asinine thinking as I look back.

But it takes all kinds.

EWO II

[Frank43]

Agreed it takes all kinds to make the wheels go 'round.

Sometimes it is perspective and past experiences.

My first times in the dogs were as a kid when I was 10-11 years old. A guy sat on a five gallon bucket watching a dog on a mill. When his son blinked a flashlight the dog came off the mill and I walked him around the field as the incoming dog was placed on the mill. I got 2 or three dollars for my work and a whole five if I jogged around the field. Ten years old in rural North Carolina making three to five dollars a day was damn near like being a Rockefeller (or Elon Muck these days).

I was never included in breeding discussions and producing dog discussion, only the actual working of a dog. That discussion led to he has to be perfect to win and winning is really the only purpose/reasoning to owning a bulldog. When that is the first and foremost lesson and one ins only ten years old, it sticks, and it sticks/stays for a really long time. So much so it took a lot of years for this zebra to not only change his stripes but find appreciation in those who didn't have the stripes from the start.

I knew two older fellows who have since passed who would damn near fist fight over whether Bandit quit or was stopped. For me, I am glad the Mountain Man bred him because he threw Two Eyes which thru Miss Two Eyes that when bred to Patrick's Kasai gave me the best male I have ever owned and one of the best females I ever seen. I would have never had that insight.

To a lot who saw him, as a bulldog Snooty was trash. I am glad Carl Mims is so much smarter and wiser than me and incorporated him in the blends of Red Boy-Snooty-Bolio dogs for so many years. That blend of dogs created Mims Charlie who is by far the best all-around, everything dog I have ever seen. Those heavy Snooty bred dogs produced a female named Sugarfoot who is by far the hardest biting dog I have ever seen and would venture to say one of the hardest biting dogs that ever lived.

These are just two of the examples of why my way of thinking never has, nor ever had, a chance of being successful in the dogs.

I look back to those that made better decisions than I would have made and show my appreciation.

I grew up on a yard that had 8-10 spots, and all were winners or on their way to winning. Culling had nothing to do with curs. Culling was removing pretty good game dogs from the mix because the chain spot was needed for a better dog with a better shot at winning. If two match quality dogs landed at 37lbs, he did not have two dogs at 37, he found out which of the two were the 37 to keep. Archaic and asinine thinking as I look back.

But it takes all kinds.

EWO II

There’s nothing wrong with that. It does take all kinds. I do lead towards. Breeding. I was into art and science as a kid and adult. Athletics with sports. I have some friends I’m trying to teach something’s too. How not to screw off your best dog. Get to a point where you are constantly raising your average.

I see conformation in an instant. Like cow hocked. To thin etc. I have my favorite body styles. Does it make a difference. Do we breed for conformation. No. But the more faults a dog has the more they have to over come.

You’re right. It takes all kinds. I think about yard management a lot. The second order and third order thinking that goes into winning these conformation shows.

I recently acquired a pup from someone who used to contribute here. I like dogs down from dogs he bred.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=90958

Megan is coming here. Owww that’s a sweet white girl name. No Megan is sweet to her friends and serious to people that tries to hurt who she protects.

What does this have to do with winning. I’m fond of the Hollingsworth stuff. I like the temperament on the bull stuff. Basically it’s variation on a theme. I need dogs that I can trust around family. What does that have to do with winning? If I sell a man biter now the people are after me. It matters.

I can’t wait for her to get here.