Breeding young dogs

[Officially Retired]

Ginetics are Ginetics, surely the age of the sire and dam should not affect how the dogs behave or mature into grown dogs?
Out of curiosity how are the pups bred? Are they tightly bred dogs?

Exactly right. A dog can either produce, or it can't, regardless of its talent.

I wouldn't be a fan of breeding young unproven dogs but if it needed to be done I also wouldn't hesitate. We imported a young bitch from garner a few years ago and just before she was to be shipped she broke so we had garner mate her to the bobby Peru dog and got some of the best dogs we've ever had.

Exactly right again. If you have a knowledge of what good dogs are (in deed, in a pedigree, how an animal should move, etc.), and if you have a gem of a young dog, then breed her and get the ball rolling.

Of course, at some point, all dogs need to be evaluated over several REASONABLE rolls.
NO DOG needs to be rolled within an inch of its life, ever.

On the flipside, NO ONE can keep breeding untested dogs, and keep themselves in the winner's circle over time.
You have to SEE what you're breeding at some point. (This should be obvious to anyone.)
Tested does NOT mean "beat all to hell," mutilated, or permanently-damaged.
Tested means rolled with a few dogs, after it's mature, with each successive roll being against progressively more-and-more talented individuals, until both are fairly tired, to see how the prospect does and behaves against a variety of styles.

Again, any fool should be able to distinguish between a breeder of dogs, and determine right away if this guy is a green bozo breeding puppies to sell (with no actual breeding record to stand on), or if he's a long-term breeder of excellence (meaning DOGS THAT WIN) who happens to be breeding a young, superbly-bred animal of his own time-proven bloodline.

Anyone with a pedigree full of untested dogs isn't winning consistently.

Anyone with a pedigree FULL of game/talented dogs, from generations of high-percentage litters top-and-bottom ... can happily breed his young dogs ... and not have to worry about what "The Peanut Gallery" has to say

Jack

One more thing: Just because "you" don't know what a dog did/didn't do in a pedigree doesn't mean "nothing's been done" with that dog

[EGK]

All truth, just something else piling up the breeding on the way out to recoup a bit. Most definitely what you said was all truth though Jack. No dispute here. Salute

[Officially Retired]

Let me also add that I understand the concern for adding too many bulldogs on this earth, bred by every Tom, Dick, and Harry breeding their first puppies together.

I have done my part by no longer breeding dogs PERIOD.
IF I get back in, I will only do so IF I have enough "other" income so that I don't ever have to sell any dog for any reason.

So here is another truth:
If you don't want to "support" green bozos breeding dogs, then don't buy from them EVER

Because, ya see, here's what happens: the green bozo buys from the time-proven breeder (who charges $$, as he should, for his years of trial/error and success).
The green bozo spends $$$ to get his pups ... and then breeds them together, first heat, no real rolls. and then turns around and sells his well-bred/untested pups for $300-$500.
And guess what happens then?
That's right, YOU bozos then bypass the time-proven breeder, and buy the cheap pups being advertised by the green bozo, KNOWING that the pups will prolly still be good, but undercutting the proven breeder in the process. So YOU GUYS made this happen

Therefore ... put your money where your mouth is and either 1) BREED YOUR OWN or 2) SUPPORT LEGIT BREEDERS ... by ponying-up the $$$ to the good breeders ... and leave low-$ pups from two well bred dogs alone, no matter how well bred ... to discourage the practice of green retards breeding their first dogs and selling pups. And anyone who buys scatter-bred shit deserves to stay at the bottom.

You can also wait till the green guy gets out there and WINS with his dogs (after he realizes no one will buy), and then even he might hike-up those prices to where they belong ... and, in so doing, have "proven" his stock in some way. He'll find they're worth more that way too.

The best criticism is NOT BUYING the pups you're complaining about ... because the "complaints" mean nothing if someone's getting his $$.

Jack

[S_B]

Let me also add that I understand the concern for adding too many bulldogs on this earth, bred by every Tom, Dick, and Harry breeding their first puppies together.

I have done my part by no longer breeding dogs PERIOD.
IF I get back in, I will only do so IF I have enough "other" income so that I don't ever have to sell any dog for any reason.

So here is another truth:
If you don't want to "support" green bozos breeding dogs, then don't buy from them EVER

Because, ya see, here's what happens: the green bozo buys from the time-proven breeder (who charges $$, as he should, for his years of trial/error and success).
The green bozo spends $$$ to get his pups ... and then breeds them together, first heat, no real rolls. and then turns around and sells his well-bred/untested pups for $300-$500.
And guess what happens then?
That's right, YOU bozos then bypass the time-proven breeder, and buy the cheap pups being advertised by the green bozo, KNOWING that the pups will prolly still be good, but undercutting the proven breeder in the process. So YOU GUYS made this happen

Therefore ... put your money where your mouth is and either 1) BREED YOUR OWN or 2) SUPPORT LEGIT BREEDERS ... by ponying-up the $$$ to the good breeders ... and leave low-$ pups from two well bred dogs alone, no matter how well bred ... to discourage the practice of green retards breeding their first dogs and selling pups. And anyone who buys scatter-bred shit deserves to stay at the bottom.

You can also wait till the green guy gets out there and WINS with his dogs (after he realizes no one will buy), and then even he might hike-up those prices to where they belong ... and, in so doing, have "proven" his stock in some way. He'll find they're worth more that way too.

The best criticism is NOT BUYING the pups you're complaining about ... because the "complaints" mean nothing if someone's getting his $$.

Jack

I respect this answer, and agree 100%! Very well said Jack!

I've said b4 I'm not into buying dogs, but that doesn't mean I'm a fool and can't recognize when quality dogmen offer quality bulldogs for sale at a price that reflects their worth. And if I was looking to buy, I know where I'd spend my money.

As far as breeding young dogs for profit, like Jack says it's all about the quality of dogs being pumped out by the breeder.

Guys all the pissing, bitching and moaning isn't going to change things one iota. But if you practice what Jack just said above, you will be ok.

[EGK]

What Jack said for the most part is what this thread was about. Because it was a topic it may help someone when they read it. I believe the majority of us breed our own anyway. I know everything on my yard I bred for 3 generations and had to learn some years ago just what was said on here. Haven't bought a dog in 5yrs for myself. Salute to all and respect for a good discussion.

[MISTER]

I mainly started this post bc another member's post was sorta hi-jacked with this particular topic. I respect all opinions and methods, also I'm glad this thread didn't go ”left”.

[S_B]

Great topic Mister...

[MISTER]

Great topic Mister...

Thanks buddy, as we all know what works for me may not work for you. This seems to be one of those sensitve topics that people cant discuss without bashing one another. I just like to see other peoples methods, I know of quite a few winners,chs, and DG dogs that came off of young, untested bitches. Great responses gentlemen.

[No Quarter Kennel]

I dont agree with it and can touch on what a few have said. When folks don't know the sacrifices of being a dog man and not in it for the hustle they don't understand the cause and effect of certain decisions. They say it's not your business yet when the news breaks everybody gets shook in an area no matter if they do are don't. Why over populate and hustle our dogs when we see the trouble the breed is in. Folks say low life this and that yet they take the money from anybody. Breeding young dogs with intent to sell is a hustle. Keeping them is taking a chance. Making that choice is one thing. I know a man who has a ROM bitch untouched. He sales dogs time to time but all her ROM pts came from his hard work and foresight. I don't knock selling dogs. Just put in the work and understand the sacrifice. Value what it means to be a dogman with some standard and integrity. Too many dogmen are half ass gamblers, peddlers, and in it for a buck. Jmo

I'm on board with the majority of what you say here.
Only one sentence I get tired of hearing from a ton of people on subjects like this about money.

Outside of TG or maybe one or two others making some money, there isn't anyone MAKING money breeding and selling these dogs. Yes, some are, but personally, I don't know anyone who is making money. So to say "they in it for the money" is a bit asinine.

Anyone here know someone personally who makes significant money breeding and selling bulldogs?

[Macker]

There's no money in dogs, And not just breeding them, even people working them. my honest opinion is the odd time somebody might get a decent bet on one of there dogs and win but anything people get they either put back into them or barely cover what they have put in. Maybe in America it's different but I believe these big stake shows are few and very far between, well anything you could consider earning a living from anyway. The media go on as if guys have millions on these shows but the truth is a purse of a thousand bucks is a pretty big purse these days. You guys would know better what goes on over there but over this side of the pond percentage wise, big purse shows are in the minority.