Great dog with no papers

[FACE203]

Nice chatting with you fellas... Maybe one day we will meet in the woods..
Take it easy

The Problem Solver

[Hurstmob]

I respect everyones opinion to each his own its just seems kind of absurd that a person would say thay they won't breed a bad ass dog that has won 5 for you because his ped is unknown unless you have a ystd full of Gr Ch and Ch whose pedigrees you know then I can see you walking past him to breed to your other Gr. Ch. Good discussion though.

[Officially Retired]

I respect everyones opinion to each his own its just seems kind of absurd that a person would say thay they won't breed a bad ass dog that has won 5 for you because his ped is unknown unless you have a ystd full of Gr Ch and Ch whose pedigrees you know then I can see you walking past him to breed to your other Gr. Ch. Good discussion though.

I don't see why it's absurd at all.

The fact is, most Grand Champions don't produce Grand Champions ... and another fact is most Grand Champions didn't come out of Grand Champions either. Therefore, "being a Grand Champion" is essentially a wildcard and is a predictor of nothing as far as production goes.

The truth is, Grand Champions produce mostly average dogs ... just like every other dog ... so there is no reason to get all excited about breeding to one ... unless you know what you're working with genetically, and have the insight to see there truly is a truly excellent "genetic wall" behind the dog.

When you breed, you get what the average of the line is on average, not what the best/worst, are, which is why having some idea of what's behind your dog "on average" (for better or worse) is so important to successful breeding.

Jack

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[snapbak]

I understand what everyone is saying by not wanting to breed a dog with an unknown history, but this is why the game is at where its at now with all this paper breeding going on. People are focusing more on pedigrees as opposed to performance. Dog A could have the prettiest ped in the world, but not be worth the dog food he is eating. Meanwhile dog B has an unknown ped but is a great dog. You guys are saying that you wouldn't take a chance and breed thst bad ass dog with an unknowm ped? You would rather breed that pretty papered piece of crap based solely on his ped? Let me guess the pretty papered dog is bred to produce right. I will take performance over ped any day, because at the end of the day none of them may not produce anything but me personally my performer is gonna get more chances to prove his self as a producer as opposed to my pretty papered turd.

[Officially Retired]

I understand what everyone is saying by not wanting to breed a dog with an unknown history, but this is why the game is at where its at now with all this paper breeding going on. People are focusing more on pedigrees as opposed to performance. Dog A could have the prettiest ped in the world, but not be worth the dog food he is eating. Meanwhile dog B has an unknown ped but is a great dog. You guys are saying that you wouldn't take a chance and breed thst bad ass dog with an unknowm ped? You would rather breed that pretty papered piece of crap based solely on his ped? Let me guess the pretty papered dog is bred to produce right. I will take performance over ped any day, because at the end of the day none of them may not produce anything but me personally my performer is gonna get more chances to prove his self as a producer as opposed to my pretty papered turd.

The fallacy to this thinking is you're comparing polar opposites: Dog A (with pretty papers, but not worth a damn) to Dog B (a badass dog, but with an unknown background).

You're forgetting the most important dog of all, which is Dog C 8-)

Some some of us don't have to make such a "poor man's" choice between the two evils of Dog A and Dog B ... some of us in fact have the luxury of not just "one" dog, but multiple dogs of a third kind you haven't mentioned ... again Dog C (fully-capable, badass dogs ... WITH pretty papers ... who have reliably and consistently produced Champion-caliber, Champion-defeating, BIS-winning dogs for years).

How's that for a wink?

Jack


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[Hurstmob]

Yeah I forgot to mention dog C. I understand what you are saying and you are right about Gr Ch usually not producing that good, If I had other options as you stated then yes he would take the back burner to my other bad ass dog, but if I didnt and he was one of my best dogs I would have to take a shot and breed him, but I must reiterate that I am not a breeder and dont claim to know it all.

[HOGBIZ]

Dog C wasn't in the equation of the origional question. I don't think it's right to talk down and call this a "Poor Mans" choice. Some of us have had that Dog C, some have not, but the origional question was about Dog A.

Jack, I can tell you've had a few... it's 5 o'clock somewhere!

Cheers! Time to feed the dogs.

[Officially Retired]

Dog C wasn't in the equation of the origional question. I don't think it's right to talk down and call this a "Poor Mans" choice. Some of us have had that Dog C, some have not, but the origional question was about Dog A.

Dog C might not have been in your original equation, but in point of fact such dogs are the only dogs truly serious people worry about

I am sorry if you did not like my choice of words, it wasn't meant to be mean-spirited at all, it is only a phrase. But ultimately it is the truth: "dog poor" people are the only ones worrying about matters such as this; "dog rich" people do not.

You posted a general question for feedback, did you not? That is my honest feedback

While the debate keeps bouncing back from one bad extreme to another, focus is being lost on what is the BEST choice, which is Dog C. So, ultimately, if you want the best results it is wise to stick with the best choices.

It might not have been the response you wanted to hear, but it might also be the response you should give serious consideration

Cheers,

Jack

PS: And, you're wrong, I haven't had a drop to drink

PSS: Feel free to ignore my advice and breed his balls off. If you prove me wrong, and produce a bunch of great dogs, you can come back here and make fun of my answer

[HOGBIZ]

LOL, one of the finer points of on line chats, it’s hard to recognize tone for what it really is. I would have to agree to disagree on your point;
“But ultimately it is the truth: "dog poor" people are the only ones worrying about matters such as this; "dog rich" people do not.”

Some just like to experiment, and free dogs are worth my time, because one day I’m gonna quit sucking air and as long as I slide in with no regrets, I’m cool. On the other hand, I can follow the path you’ve chosen, to seek out the best, breed the best, and try to teach the best (That would be me, LOL). Just because I would choose to take an Ace with no papers does not make me dog poor, it just means I don’t care about the same things you do. Not to mention, I just like making wine out of vinegar, because that is my life’s story.

The other point must have been a guilty conscience on my part. All in all, I enjoy sensible debate, regardless of who it comes from.

Cheers!

Dog C wasn't in the equation of the origional question. I don't think it's right to talk down and call this a "Poor Mans" choice. Some of us have had that Dog C, some have not, but the origional question was about Dog A.

Dog C might not have been in your original equation, but in point of fact such dogs are the only dogs truly serious people worry about

I am sorry if you did not like my choice of words, it wasn't meant to be mean-spirited at all, it is only a phrase. But ultimately it is the truth: "dog poor" people are the only ones worrying about matters such as this; "dog rich" people do not.

You posted a general question for feedback, did you not? That is my honest feedback

While the debate keeps bouncing back from one bad extreme to another, focus is being lost on what is the BEST choice, which is Dog C. So, ultimately, if you want the best results it is wise to stick with the best choices.

It might not have been the response you wanted to hear, but it might also be the response you should give serious consideration

Cheers,

Jack

PS: And, you're wrong, I haven't had a drop to drink

PSS: Feel free to ignore my advice and breed his balls off. If you prove me wrong, and produce a bunch of great dogs, you can come back here and make fun of my answer

[Choctaw]

I'd feed him, but I wouldn't breed him...............