"Fading Pups"?????

[No Quarter Kennel]

Alright, I guess we've all been there with these dogs in terms of frustrating times........LOL.....you just gotta be game I guess.
But here's the situation. I have a very good female dog and a very good male dog. One is a cross of two bloods and the other is consider a one family dog. Ped of litter is posted in puppy section.
Blood shouldn't be a factor here, but none the less, I figured I'd include the sentence above as I am very frustrated and common sense does a lot for me, but who knows? Maybe there's more.

This bitch had 10 puppies Sunday. The morning after, 3 are dead. She's not a fabulous mother, but she isn't bad either. Yes, she has raised pups before - 3 previous litters. NOT FOR ME, but 3 other litters for someone else.

2nd Morning - one more dead

Today - 3 more dead.

This shouldn't matter and common sense tells me it does not, but 4 were black brindles and 6 were reds. All reds are dead and 3 black brindles are left. The only reason I mention this, is in years past, I have had something like this happen before. Almost 11 years ago, I had a litter of 11 puppies. 3 were black brindles and 8 were black and tans of all things. All 8 black and tans died and the black brindles lived. I've had litters, from this same family of dogs (Alligator stock) with only 4 or 5 pups, one or two might die and it would always be the pups that are NOT black brindles and the bb pups would live. I've had the same thing with litters of black pups and other colors. Blacks would live and the others not.

I know, I know - this shit shouldn't matter, but my frustrations right now lead me to share any and all crazy ass information as maybe, someone out there can help or may know something I do not. I am not too proud to ask for or take help.

SO, since I don't believe in "luck" and to be 100% honest and clear about the "color conspiracy"........I DON'T BELIEVE THAT HAS SHIT TO DO WITH ANYTHING! But hey, if someone believes otherwise, please share.

What I'm after is WHAT CAN BE CAUSES OF THESE PUPS FADING AWAY ON ME?????? What can I DO to maximize opportunity and circumstances so these pups DO NOT FADE on me??????

I did all the pre-breeding, pre-birthing practices in Jack's book. It's cold right now, but they are in a 3x3 brood box, with a door and a heat lamp. It is not TOO HOT by any means and there is no panting or heavy breathing and they are all plenty warm as they all, mom included, lay flat out basking in the heat of that lamp like sun tanners on a beach.

I get replies from guys all the time about, "Hey, that just happens some times" and "Be thankful for the ones that live" and "Just part of it".....well, I find all of that to be fucking unacceptable.

Anyways - I guess it could be worse......I could be an owner of a poodle.

Any help is appreciated.

[SteelyDan]

They eating OK?

[No Quarter Kennel]

They seem to be fairly vibrant. You know, you can tell the ones that may fade some times. I had one the day they were born, I figured wouldn't last and she didn't. But hell, it seems like every day, I spot another one with "that look".

Run antibiotics through mom?? Bottle feed? Anything?

[No Quarter Kennel]

Got an answer from Gary Hammonds this morning that may explain what happened.
The birthing of these pups went like this. 6 were born, right off, like in 4 hours. 3 of those six were black brindles.

The other 6 were not born until 12 hours later. As in, #7 wasn't born until 12 hours later.

This is what GH had to say to it:

WERE THE BLACK BRINDLES BORN FIRST ? I COULD SEE THOSE WHO WERE A LITTLE LATE IN COMING PICKING UP A LITTLE TOXIN WHILE STILL IN THE HOLDING PATTERN BUT I AM JUST SPECTULATING. WHEN YOU BREED HER AGAIN AS SOON AS SHE SHOWS SIGNS OF WHELPING GIVE HER A DOSE OF PEN G & PROCANE…..THEN WHEN SHE IS THROUGH A POP SHOT AND PEN DEX CLOR STREP. THE NEXT DAY USE PENN AGAIN AND POP. ANY WAY IN THE FUTURE JUST PRAY FOR BLACK BRINDLES AND KNOW THAT IT WILL HAPPEN. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT YOU CAN’T QUIT AND LEARN FROM EVERY EXPERIENCE. MAY THE GOOD LORD BLESS YOU IN ALL YOUR DOGGIN AND OTHER STUFF TOO !

[No Quarter Kennel]

Just checked on them and two are doing great. Plenty of wt gain and wiggly like they suppose to be. One is smaller and slower.
This is why this board is so good.
The simple process of me seeking a solution leads me to believe there must be an infection.

SO - any safe preventative method I can use next time to ensure against this happening again?

[SteelyDan]

What sort of infection do you think there is? Usually uterine infections are accompanied by discharge. Might he hard to tell of course if she still had after birth type discharge.

[No Quarter Kennel]

No abnormal discharge since birth til now.

[scratchin dog]

The milk could be infected with bacteria. Your vet can look at a sample under a microscope and tell you if there is bacteria present. In order to find out what kind of bacteria they would have to send it out for a culture. That way they will know exactly what antibiotics to treat it with.

[Officially Retired]

The milk could be infected with bacteria. Your vet can look at a sample under a microscope and tell you if there is bacteria present. In order to find out what kind of bacteria they would have to send it out for a culture. That way they will know exactly what antibiotics to treat it with.

Yeah, bad milk will kill the litter in a hurry. (Don't know about Hammond's reasoning ...)

Give the mama TMZ asap ... one of the best damned drugs for dogmen ... and it concentrates in mammary tissue especially.

Jack

PS: Would bottle feed until mama's milk clears.

[No Quarter Kennel]

Good to see your post Jack. Makes me feel good about what I'm doing. I started that last night. Bottle fed the little guys last night.
Two are doing great, gaining wt and so forth, like nothing's really wrong. One isn't doing great, but she's not "Bad" bad off yet.
We will do our part.