I am hoping to get some of this to go with some old eli/corvino im in cali and heard butch kinzinbaw is out here if you have info or know someone who would please email me xhellabentx@yahoo.com
I am hoping to get some of this to go with some old eli/corvino im in cali and heard butch kinzinbaw is out here if you have info or know someone who would please email me xhellabentx@yahoo.com
Any luck?
It's always a bad bargain looking around for "old blood" ... I am not sure what that means, really.
I've never seen any Kinzenbaw dogs go, to be quite honest, but I've never known of any really super dogs that resulted from them.
Can anybody prove me wrong?
I don't mind being proven wrong at all ... I just would like to know what's such a big deal about these dogs?
Usually, when something truly is a big deal, there are big results that go with it
Jack
I have a few hounds down from the KZB blood. It is hard to get this blood, especially from Butch. Unlike most families this blood hasn't been bred much and the blood has been held to a high standard. You should get durable game hounds if you are able to get your hands on some of this blood. Good luck
Noting wrong with durable, game dogs ...
I have just heard this guy's name pop up from time to time ... that he is a purveyor of Clouse dogs ... but I can't seem to recall any truly spectacular animals coming from him or from someone using one of his dogs for crosses.
Like I said, I would love to be proven wrong--sincerely--because I like people who try to keep a tight family of dogs of high quality.
Just wondering if there are any is all.
Jack
I think you are right, I also looked into this blood years ago to acquire some for the Clouse & Bolio to add with some other strains I was using. While it was costly I learned that the biggest reason most have this blood was to say that they have it. Spoke with a gentleman who used it from California, he stated for competing reasons the blood was nothing more than a filler, he said in order to compete with it you would without doubt have to cross it. Then went to unlock some secrets and says yes it's known for it's gameness but some of the dogs being toted as Premier studs were of lesser quality and were opposite of what the line is known for. He said it does add a good element of air and breaks down the body frame of blood.Originally Posted by CA Jack
Some fellas who liked Boyles bred type dogs or Eli family dogs sometimes get barrel chested or just bulky and come in as the smaller dog on weight or have to go up in weight because the weight loss is too much. He said the KZB blood would help that and put some good air into them. Opposite of Mr VIP (please remember this is just one group of guys opinion) they weren't durable. Said most of the game ones weren't durable at all that's why you hear about the gameness but never much proof because they show a lot of heart in school and around but typically weren't durable enough after school to go get ribbons.
I agree with you guys.... His main focus is to keep the family alive. He prefer to just breed & check them. Not many have been shown in recent years. The hounds that were given the chance had success and I believe it would be more winners and well known dogs if he was into that. Not many have the chance to get dogs from him because he don't want the blood to be crossed. I have access to a KZB male that seems to be putting good ones on the ground. I will be breeding a couple of my bitches to him in the near future.
James,
Thank you for permitting me to make this post.
Jack,
When I see some of the posts concerning KZB dogs, it’s natural to assume there are ROMs, PORs GR CH’s, in the pedigrees. Most owners and observers of these dogs are a discrete lot but often extoll the greatness of the line. One would assume there are titled dogs and widespread use from the paddock.
A previous post under the ch. Hobo Jack thread describes the characteristics of the line pretty well.
Nothing more or less. Still, based on what some share, you would think Elvis reincarnated into a dog.
I spoke to Mark Mallard (Muh-lard), who has a great deal of experience with Clouse dogs, as he owned and co-owned dogs bred by Bert himself. Mallard saw those dogs straight, crossed, etc.
Some readers may recall the tribute website he ran some years ago, titled “Bert Clouse and His Dogs”.
Clouse died in 1982. By that time, his line was 40 years old.
All the inherent good and bad traits that come with a family line enduring that time span were present, so great care had to be taken when choosing a prospect to move forward with.
KZB received his dogs directly from Bert. Not long before Bert died, KZB traveled across country and bred his pure Clouse female to Bert’s Judge dog. I confirmed this with RC, who was Bert’s protégé and actually carried out the breeding. Under Bert’s tutelage, KZB selected and bred dogs to the standard as he learned from his mentor.
Bert Clouse had such a profound influence with KZB, that he (and his wife) dedicated themselves to perpetuating the line, as close to its original form as possible. For the last 35 years, he has maintained the dogs to be very “Clouse-like” in both form and function. Mallard told me that when he visited KZB’s yard for the first time, he thought he walked through a time warp as the dogs were very “Clouse looking”. On the property, there are used axles in a graveyard memorial for the ancestors who preceded the current paddock.
Perhaps the most remarkable thing about being on KZB’s property was the way he and his wife live. They live in a house trailer, on a very rural patch of land in front of their secured dogs.
He and his wife successfully raised a family of accomplished adult children (except for one boo-boo) in an off-site respectable home, while now spending most of their time, cultivating their family of dogs on the trailer property.
The old man is extremely smart, private and shrewd. He has a university degree and had many choices in life but was humble and content to work as a barber, as it permitted him to “maintain” his other interests. He is protective of his line and of wary those who would exploit it or use it improperly.
He remains very private. Due to the relationship and influence from Bert Clouse, I think KZB saw himself as being charged with the responsibility to dedicate his life to the dogs, as his mentor did. Screwy? Maybe.
He privately bred and culled the dogs as he was taught.
No fanfare. No recognition, accolades or outside rewards.
Just decades of doing what he was compelled to do.
Mallard said that if you saw what he passed on in his “spring cleaning”, you would plead for his culls.
The old man occasionally let a dog go outside of his yard, in order to keep them honest.
Several of the winners in a KZB pedigree were bred by the old man but campaigned by others.
This way there was no kennel blindness or stacking the deck to his advantage. Those dogs made it back to the yard.
Within 35 years of breeding, he only published 3 ads in the SDJ and this was only to seek out other Clouse dogs or those who had an understanding of the Clouse line.
When Bert Clouse died, there was an occasional pure Clouse dog that was worth a bet.
Many were shy and thin boned; however, when used properly in a breeding program, you were able to produce the same traits that Patrick related about Clouse dogs in an interview. That is, gameness and long haul endurance were added. By the way, before Patrick’s kennel went down, where do you think the little dark brindle dogs he had segregated away from his customers came from?
Some people would ask, what are those dogs over there? Patrick wouldn’t answer.
Mallard says that the KZB dogs are a flashback to what Clouse dogs were at that time of Clouse’s desth.
You can expect the same results. For some, this is a great thing, while to others it is a waste of time.
We all know who the blowhards are that bash everybody else’s efforts so that you will only buy their dogs. KZB’s protégé was tired of hearing the criticism of his mentor’s work and brought out the “Bert” dog. He campaigned him to whomever was interested. The blowhards didn’t step up but Mallard was at both events. In fact he officiated the second. Mallard said for the first event, a dog was selected to counter the KZB dog’s style. This dog was reputed to be a real widowmaker and had a few K’s in his resume. His conditioning was overseen by one of the best in Mexico. This beastie was everything he was rumored to be and offered an inside look of the KZB dog’s anatomy. The sounds from pitside was said to be disgusting. In the end, the KZB dog put the quit on old killer.
A different train of thought was used to select the style for the next contestant but in the end, that dog quit as well. Not more than 40 people attended both events. Not private but not a multi-card event.
So as the world turns, the old man remains. KZB is older now and well into his 70’s.
Not sure how much longer he will be with us.
I guess it’s a matter of taste when it comes to how KZB’s line is valued.
There will not be enough recognition or accolades for some to respect what he was accomplished.
He did his thing high on a hill, for his own edification, to the standards he was taught.
He didn’t care about titles.
He didn’t sell dogs to support himself.
I won’t repeat why Mallard said he took his Clouse tribute site.
This is all I can offer to give some insight to the KZB dogs.
Nice post Gunny. Thanks for taking the time.
Yes, a great read. Thank you Gunny for posting it.
Common sense isn't so common these days.
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