((( BEST TO BEST OF THE CENTURY )))

[Officially Retired]

There was talk about the ability to "clone" or store semen earlier ... well, imagine if we could preserve eggs

Can you imagine the kind of a bloodline that could be developed, if several of Tornado's eggs could have been salvaged?

BREEDING OF THE CENTURY

IMO, these are the two greatest dogs of the century. They could kill you early or break you down over time. They had ZERO weaknesses.

Both are without peer, as far as historical accomplishments go.

Neither will likely have a successor in any of our lifetimes, and that is sad ... because it's ALL DOWNHILL from where they are

Well, can you imagine, if the technology were available, the kind of a linebreeding program that could be established from this outcross?

Maybe the litter would be phenomenal, maybe there would be mixed results, IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER

The Point is, Titere can still produce, and IF we were able to harvest the eggs from a bitch like Tornado, we could breed THE BEST son of Titere back to her (and THE BEST daughter of the matings back to Titere), whenever we wanted.

With the appropriate selection, and the availability of more eggs, when science gets to this point, it will be a phenomenal leap for the modern dogman.

Just thinking out loud ...

Jack

[Bingo]

There was talk about the ability to "clone" or store semen earlier ... well, imagine if we could preserve eggs

Can you imagine the kind of a bloodline that could be developed, if several of Tornado's eggs could have been salvaged?

BREEDING OF THE CENTURY

IMO, these are the two greatest dogs of the century. They could kill you early or break you down over time. They had ZERO weaknesses.

Both are without peer, as far as historical accomplishments go.

Neither will likely have a successor in any of our lifetimes, and that is sad ... because it's ALL DOWNHILL from where they are

Well, can you imagine, if the technology were available, the kind of a linebreeding program that could be established from this outcross?

Maybe the litter would be phenomenal, maybe there would be mixed results, IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER

The Point is, Titere can still produce, and IF we were able to harvest the eggs from a bitch like Tornado, we could breed THE BEST son of Titere back to her (and THE BEST daughter of the matings back to Titere), whenever we wanted.

With the appropriate selection, and the availability of more eggs, when science gets to this point, it will be a phenomenal leap for the modern dogman.

Just thinking out loud ...

Jack

I dont think either is best of the century. Titere is phenomenal from every first hand account I have heard but not one person I have talked too says he is even the best they have ever seen much less the best of the century. I would also take Shady Lady, Molly bee, or Queen over Tornado but you are right that storing eggs would change the game.

[Officially Retired]

I dont think either is best of the century. Titere is phenomenal from every first hand account I have heard but not one person I have talked too says he is even the best they have ever seen much less the best of the century.

Sometimes the hardest dogs to beat are those that aren't "awesome" at anything, just VERY strong at everything.

DBL Gr Ch Melonhead was such a dog also ... I knew a guy who took Melonhead 2:40 ... said his 8xW dog fought a perfect fight, did NOTHING wrong, died DEAD game ... but Melonhead fought a beyond perfect fight.

Nothing "devastating" ... just freaking flawless, insanely tough/rugged, understood his job, beat you to the punch, and could go forever ...

Marvin Hagler was like that ... beat EVERY devastating puncher he faced (Hearns/Mugabi/etc.) ... he was too tough to lose.

I would also take Shady Lady, Molly bee, or Queen over Tornado but you are right that storing eggs would change the game.

When I lived in Nashville, TN, I knew several people who lived next door to both Shady Lady and Tornado, and saw most of their matches.
(Ran with Ken Allen / knew and matched into Ricky Jones, several times in fact.)

Shady is never mentioned in their "best" conversations ... but Tornado always is.

I can see an argument for The Queen and for Molly ... but I still don't think either of these great bitches will be anything other than footnotes *under* Tornado's position, at the top, historically.

Now, if I were going to make a fantasy breeding with Molly, it would be this.

And, if I were going to make a fantasy breeding with The Queen, it would be this.

Jack

PS: One of these days, the ability to harvest/save eggs will be perfected ...

[bolero]

so many people say queen over tornado, but the facts are tornado is more accomplished. this is a matter of historical record. she won ten againt the best dogmen of that time and queen only won eight

[arsuffi@att.net]

Jack that breeding you state MollyxZebo was done maybe? When I lost to Lonnie Woodberry when I was 19 or 20 first match I was in and first match I ever seen. I was the man or boy O. Stevens talks about in his interview on this site about somebody getting his dog killed in 30 mins. That dog showed so game dead game Mr. Woodberry seen how I responded in the [] took me aside and told me to come and visit him for some advice. During my many times going to his home he would always try to get me to buy some dogs from Mr. Edwards from the N.C. I would always laugh and say I like the dogs I have but one time he pulled out papers on GR.CH.Mickey's litter and said how do you think this litter is bred one was adba the other was hand written from Mr. Edwards it stated they were out of Zebo x Molly Bee so who knows if this is true I really have never talk about this a lot but I seen both sire and dam of that litter and personally never thought they were out of them. If anyone from this time and area has any input on this please add to this post. Yours in the game Johnny

[Chase1]

No disrespect to Tornado, but Lady Stone would have dethrowned Tornado.
Nice breeding though.

[Officially Retired]

No disrespect to Tornado, but Lady Stone would have dethrowned Tornado.
Nice breeding though.

You say this as if it is (pardon the pun) etched in stone ...

What makes you think Lady Stone had a snowball's chance against THE winningest bitch in bulldog history?

How many dogs did Lady Stone kill, (ahem) stone dead, without getting touched in return?

List her resume ...

Thanks,

Jack

[Nut]

Its dumb speculating which dog was better.

Yes it would be nice, as allot of IF's

[Officially Retired]

Its dumb speculating which dog was better.

Yes it would be nice, as allot of IF's

Ultimately, I agree, there's no way to win a debate on who would prevail if any two dogs met.

However, it generates interesting discussion/observation, if the people involved can cite tangible reasons to back up their beliefs.

My thoughts are simply this: Very, very few dogs make it passed 3 fights.

The jump between 3 and 4xW is huge ... and the chasm between 4xW and 5xW creates more fallout still.

Most people stop at 5xW, IF they get a dog that far, and hang it up.

Going from 5x to 6x, and 6x to 7x, is almost unheard of, with the % fallout being greater still.

Therefore, to compare "the quality" a bitch who only won 4 (which is a relatively easy thing to do) ... to a bitch who won 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 matches ... the only bitch in history ever to be able to do this ... is just preposterous to me.

Tornado was a BEAST ... she was smart, game, tough as nails, could kill you in :12 ... or out-scratch you at 2:40 ... she NEVER got bit down ... not even close ... despite facing world class competition 10x in a row.

Tornado is the one who BIT everything down, 10x in a row.

A mere 4xW is ridiculously unproven compared to Tornado.

IMO, if you took a PRIME Tornado, say after her 3rd fight, I would bet on her to defeat any bitch who ever fought her weight.

As would most of the people who lost to her ...

Jack

[Officially Retired]

No disrespect to Tornado, but Lady Stone would have dethrowned Tornado.
Nice breeding though.

Curious if you were joking ... or if were you speaking of another Lady Stone?

Because, in checking out the records, Rastaman's Ch Lady Stone (4xW) was one of the bitches Gr Ch Tornado killed ...

Interestingly, Ch Lady Stone, who was killed by Tornado, was a Loposay/Zebo cross like Molly Bee ...

Jack